Any States Doing This - extra fees - Page 4 - 2019 Honda Insight Forum
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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 11:27 PM
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Soon or later the math won't add up and it will be back to gas cars for people in those states. I'm dreading the day MA does something similar as WA.




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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 03:42 PM
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I'm dreading the day MA does something similar as WA.
Looks like NH is thinking about it which means the other states in New England will follow...



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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 05:07 PM
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Oregon is the latest state to announce higher hybrid/electric fees, effective renewal dates 1/1/20 and later.

The new fee rate for gas/hybrid cars is based on the EPA mpg (i.e. the more miles per gallon you get, the higher the fees you pay to make up for what isn't paid thru gas taxes):
- 0-19 mpg = $244 for 4-year registration or $122 for 2-year registration
- 20-39 mpg = $264 for 4-year or $132 for 2-year registration
- 40+mpg = $304 for 4-year, $152 for 2-year, or lower fee for enrolling in OReGO (a pay-by-mile road usage charge to fund road maintenance and improvements).
Electric car registration = $612 for 4-year and $306 for 2-year registration, or lower fee for OReGO enrollment

https://mailtribune.com/news/top-sto...void-road-fees
https://kval.com/news/local/drivers-...new-their-tags

Last edited by insightfully; 11-22-2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason: added electric car registration
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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-22-2019, 10:25 PM
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Oregon is the latest state to announce higher hybrid/electric fees, effective renewal dates 1/1/20 and later.

The new fee rate for gas/hybrid cars is based on the EPA mpg (i.e. the more miles per gallon you get, the higher the fees you pay to make up for what isn't paid thru gas taxes):
- 0-19 mpg = $244 for 4-year registration or $122 for 2-year registration
- 20-39 mpg = $264 for 4-year or $132 for 2-year registration
- 40+mpg = $304 for 4-year, $152 for 2-year, or lower fee for enrolling in OReGO (a pay-by-mile road usage charge to fund road maintenance and improvements).

https://mailtribune.com/news/top-sto...void-road-fees
https://kval.com/news/local/drivers-...new-their-tags
Wow. That's cray. Does anyone know what B.O.H.I.C.A. means?


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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 10:02 AM
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Shouldn't people who own Hybrids get a Tax Break instead of a surcharge? I mean, we're the ones "Conserving Gas" and "Saving the Planet" so what is the justification to punish us ? WTF
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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 11:29 AM
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Shouldn't people who own Hybrids get a Tax Break instead of a surcharge? I mean, we're the ones "Conserving Gas" and "Saving the Planet" so what is the justification to punish us ? WTF
I'm all for paying my "fair share" of taxes, but the government isn't trustworthy with the money they tax us with. Just look at the NYS thruway system. The bonds were payed off in 1996 due to Federal Gov't legislation, yet not only 23 years later do we pay tolls, but they have increased substantially. It now costs more to cross a bridge into NYC, than it cost to cross the entire Thruway system.

The Gov't has proven time and time again that it does not care about the citizens (taxpayers), whether it be health or taxation. Every time they "raise" taxes under the guise of public service, they squander the money into the general fund and spend it without reservation. Almost all taxes do not actually go to where the gov't claims they are for, and instead go into funds and are borrowed against, etc.

This isn't about "making us pay our fair share", it's a money grab. Especially when you consider that the vast majority of drivers in most states, don't drive hybrid or EV vehicles. They see this as a money savings for them, and support it. The Gov't comes out and says something like "Instead of raising taxes on gasoline (or raising tolls) we have decided that the minority (hybrid/EV) users "need to pay their fair share", so we increase their registration costs (or implement a usage fee)"
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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 04:26 PM
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Shouldn't people who own Hybrids get a Tax Break instead of a surcharge? I mean, we're the ones "Conserving Gas" and "Saving the Planet" so what is the justification to punish us ? WTF
A primary justification is that monies the state expected/projected from gas taxes are being reduced by people who own fuel efficient hybrid and electric cars. The state(s) are trying to stay whole by adding an extra fee for hybrid and electric cars, to offset what is not being paid at the gas pump.

In states with these extra fees, the time it takes to "break even" or pay out buying a hybrid instead of a traditional gas engine gets even longer, since 'traditional' hybrid calculators only count on gas savings (including savings from gas taxes) - https://www.edmunds.com/calculators/gas-guzzler.html

Being in one of these affected states AND being a low-mileage driver is a double whammy in calculators and calculations like these... since gas savings were already low and the extra fees translate to an even more months/years to break even. When I re-run calculations for myself, it basically says buying a hybrid cost me more money than buying a traditional car.
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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 03:04 PM
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Another state officially bites the dust: WISCONSIN. Electric/hybrid fees had been in place for a while, but there was a loophole for older models which has now been closed.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...ee/4083995002/

Wisconsin is one of only 8 states to require fees for conventional hybrids (gas/electric, non-plug in) as of March 2019. The other 7 states are Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, South Carolina, Utah and Wisconsin, per the NCSL link below. Hybrid fees in California, Indiana, Missisippi and Utah are structured in a way that grows over time.

These fees become an additional factor to check/compare when shopping for cars, since low mileage drivers may do better to buy a conventional gas car and bypass the 'payout' for the annual hybrid fee. "States have yet to realize significant revenue collections from these special fees since the market share for hybrid and electric vehicles is still so small. If forecasted sales of hybrid and electric vehicles continue, states could see future revenue streams grow."

NCSL Summary - New Fees on Hybrid and Electric Vehicles
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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 04:24 PM
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I would still recommend the Insight if my state did something similar. It doesn't make financial sense but I love this car too much to go back to a regular gas car. The CA extended emissions warranty, regen braking to reduce brake pad wear, silent operation in EV mode, look of the car, and the tech features makes it still worth it to me. Driving the 2019 Toyota Camry rental for a week made me appreciate this car more.

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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 05:06 PM
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I would have chosen the 2018 Civic EX or 2019 Civic Sport (both naturally aspirated engines), if I had to do it again. They still get an extended warranty versus base (participating state), are more known/available parts and technology, and would bypass this electric fee nonsense that doesn't pay out for me as a lower mileage driver. I just couldn't get a good enough deal on a Civic at the time.
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