[hobokencentral]

Am curious how many fellow Insight owners feel about the following issue related to 0-60 mph times for this car. Since reviews for the car started coming out last June 19-20, I have noticed an anomaly. It appears that a number of sites/ individuals have reviewed the car with their own 0-60 tested time – yet there have been significant differences in the times across review sites. Assuming that all reviewers were given a Touring trim, here are several examples of the vehicle’s times 0-60 mph:

MOTOR TREND: 7.7 seconds
CAR & DRIVER: 8.8
AUTOWEEK: 8.38
CAR CONNECTION: 10 seconds (estimation, approximate)
ALEX ON AUTOS (YouTube videos): 7.9

I also vaguely remember reading or watching earlier, lesser known, more informal reviews of the car last year when a couple of reviewers seemed to find their 0-60 time in approximately 10 seconds. Big difference between 7.7-7.9 and 10 seconds!

As such, IF YOU WERE still shopping for this vehicle and have some level of interest in the car’s 0-60 time, which drive mode would you want to see the 0-60 time listed with (ECON, Normal, Sport)? Do you think all reviewers should list the tested drive mode OR AT LEAST try to conform to a certain drive mode standard in order to have consistency across reviews? [For the record, I would like to see the 0-60 time listed in SPORT and have all reviewers try to conform to testing 0-60 in SPORT mode]

 

[hasarad]

Amount of charge in the battery would be a factor too, yes?

 

[Mr. Natural]

FYI, heres an in-depth article on how Motor Trend does their testing.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/motor-trend-testing/

 

[hobokencentral]

Amount of charge in the battery would be a factor too, yes?

Great point, Hasarad, I didn't even think of that when composing the original post!

 

[andrew28]

1. Battery level
2. Weight (# of passengers, empty trunk?)
3. Stock tire or not (psi?)
4. Temperature
5. Elevation
6. Sport mode
7. Fuel quality

The above factors will probably change the 0-60mph time.

 

[hobokencentral]

FYI, heres an in-depth article on how Motor Trend does their testing.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/motor-trend-testing/

Mr. Natural, thanks so much for the Motor Trend article. I found most helpful the following info from that article:


1) "If there's a sport/sport plus mode, drag race mode, sport drive, or any other performance-enhancing setting, we'll start with those and work backward to see if it indeed helped."



2a) "Finally, a 2017 Toyota Prius Prime, tested on a mild 78.3-degree day with 17 percent relative humidity and 28.74 inHg barometric pressure (0-60 in 10.1 seconds - no weather correction). Plug-in or not, hybrids receive very little (weather) correction because a good portion of their power comes from batteries that feed electric motors.



2b) "In an attempt to ensure fair comparisons between cars with internal combustion engines tested in the high-desert heat of summer and the dense cold of a Michigan winter, we record ambient weather conditions using a Computech RaceAir system. With that data tied to each vehicle, we then use the Society of Automotive Engineers' SAE J1349 procedure as a guide to correct all acceleration results to standard operating conditions: 77 degrees F (25 C), 29.2348 inches mercury (Hg) barometric pressure (99 kPa), and zero percent relative humidity...It's worth noting that the correction factor is reduced for turbocharged engines, for hybrids, and turbocharged hybrids because electric motors and turbochargers are not affected much by swings in barometric pressure (turbos reach a preset boost pressure regardless of intake air pressure)."


Makes me wonder about the weather/ humidity effect of road testing the Insight in June 2018 (most early reviews came out in late June) in Minnesota. As I understand it, Honda flew a number of reviewers out to Minnesota to test drive the vehicle. Minnesota example, Forbes magazine... June 20 2018: "On a Minnesota drive loop that combined heavy traffic in Minneapolis, some higher speed freeway running and some curving rural roads, I achieved an indicated 41 mpg while maintaining a brisk pace and making no attempt to maximize efficiency."

 

[hobokencentral]

1. Battery level
2. Weight (# of passengers, empty trunk?)
3. Stock tire or not (psi?)
4. Temperature
5. Elevation
6. Sport mode
7. Fuel quality

The above factors will probably change the 0-60mph time.

Thanks for that, Andrew, I wonder if - from worst case to best case variables - the 0-60 time can differ by up to two seconds using SPORT mode?

 

[insightfully]

As such, IF YOU WERE still shopping for this vehicle and have some level of interest in the car’s 0-60 time, which drive mode would you want to see the 0-60 time listed with (ECON, Normal, Sport)? Do you think all reviewers should list the tested drive mode OR AT LEAST try to conform to a certain drive mode standard in order to have consistency across reviews? [For the record, I would like to see the 0-60 time listed in SPORT and have all reviewers try to conform to testing 0-60 in SPORT mode]

I like Motor Trend's principle of comparing acceleration in Sport mode, because it is the most "aggressive" setting the car has and should represent the "best" acceleration result the car can deliver.

As a couple adds to your summary of Insight acceleration results in "Sport" mode:
- The Fast Lane Car = ~9 seconds [see 8:14 to 9:16]
- MPGomatic = ~8 seconds [see 27:06 to end]

 

[hobokencentral]

I like Motor Trend's principle of comparing acceleration in Sport mode, because it is the most "aggressive" setting the car has and should represent the "best" acceleration result the car can deliver.

As a couple adds to your summary of Insight acceleration results in "Sport" mode:
- The Fast Lane Car = ~9 seconds [see 8:14 to 9:16]
- MPGomatic = ~8 seconds [see 27:06 to end]

Insightfully, thanks for those additional links. Interesting to see more notable discrepancies - with an 8 second and a 9 second time.

 

[insightfully]

Insightfully, thanks for those additional links. Interesting to see more notable discrepancies - with an 8 second and a 9 second time.

Aside from mode selection, how much difference does the CVT itself add as a variable factor? Are results less consistent because of the variable transmission?

 

[Mobilcams]

Wheels are a definite variable. I’m sure
Most reviewers are getting the heavier Touring model along with the larger tires.

 

[insightfully]

Wheels are a definite variable. I’m sure
Most reviewers are getting the heavier Touring model along with the larger tires.

What's confusing is that even among reviewers who are driving the same Touring trim in the same mode (Sport), their results are differing by a wide (up to 2 sec) margin...?

 

[hobokencentral]

What's confusing is that even among reviewers who are driving the same Touring trim in the same mode (Sport), their results are differing by a wide (up to 2 sec) margin...?

Insightfully, that's exactly what I was thinking. But then add on summertime weather in 2018 (for many early reviews) and the hybrid tendency to need less weather "correction" and those get largely ruled out as significant variables. Thus, I agree with Hasarad that there is a - probably significant - variable in how many bars of battery charge there is when they test 0-60! I do not ever recall having seen that variable pointed out in a video or article (as per the acceleration test). I gotta believe that it just does not occur to any reviewers to mention (or put down in writing) the number of bars!

 

[safedad]

Server error, trying again. 2019 Touring in Sport mode. Using the youtube studio editor timer, I'd say roughly 7.6s 0-60 and 10.1s 0-70. Fairly consistent with Motor Trend.

 

[insightfully]

Server error, trying again. 2019 Touring in Sport mode. Using the youtube studio editor timer, I'd say roughly 7.6s 0-60 and 10.1s 0-70. Fairly consistent with Motor Trend.

...wondering if reviewer acceleration rate varied along with the song/genre they played via Sirius XM? :wink:

 

[Mobilcams]

Aside from mode selection, how much difference does the CVT itself add as a variable factor? Are results less consistent because of the variable transmission?

CVT in this case is a non issue.. The Insight uses an Ecvt.. There is no belt with limitations to get in the way..

As for all other factors, I like to use the brake hold as my launch mechanism when I am considering a "launch" lol.. Just hit that pedal down as far as it goes with a good battery charge lol!

 

[safedad]

...wondering if reviewer acceleration rate varied along with the song/genre they played via Sirius XM? :wink:

Lol. Had they been playing one of my favorites, I'm sure I could have managed half a second faster.

 

[PHILBERT]

Lol. Had they been playing one of my favorites, I'm sure I could have managed half a second faster.

I feel the urge of another "test" coming on. Should be a quick "fun" test.

In search of a flat area that has no traffic. WIP

Phil

 

[Wifey'sInsight]

Also not mentioned was if Traction control was enabled or not. Most cars can achieve better acceleration numbers without traction control if the tires don't ever break loose. Traction control pulls power away to maintain traction.

Also another factor to consider is the temperature of both the battery pack and electric motors. Electrical efficiency is directly proportional to temperature.

Say a reviewer decided to do a 0-60 mph run after driving the car for 30 minutes, vs a reviewer who drove the car for 5-10 minutes for the purpose of reaching ICE operating temperature and charging the batteries to the best of his/her ability.

Also factor in if they decided to let the car sit for 1 minute, or 10 minutes etc between driving and testing. So many factors that aren't necessarily accounted for when a non-scientific approach is taken.

 

[safedad]

Also not mentioned was if Traction control was enabled or not. Most cars can achieve better acceleration numbers without traction control if the tires don't ever break loose. Traction control pulls power away to maintain traction.

Also another factor to consider is the temperature of both the battery pack and electric motors. Electrical efficiency is directly proportional to temperature.

Say a reviewer decided to do a 0-60 mph run after driving the car for 30 minutes, vs a reviewer who drove the car for 5-10 minutes for the purpose of reaching ICE operating temperature and charging the batteries to the best of his/her ability.

Also factor in if they decided to let the car sit for 1 minute, or 10 minutes etc between driving and testing. So many factors that aren't necessarily accounted for when a non-scientific approach is taken.

Similarly, tires themselves play a huge role. I don't know how many vendors Honda uses on the Insight, but just going from Bridgestone to Continental to whomever or even different tires from the same company could be a huge difference. With low rolling resistance fuel efficient tires, perhaps higher temps are even more favorable to keep them from slipping at launch?

I also wonder if the driver response is included in the numbers at some publications. If you only look at the speedo like I did or use lasers or radars to determine when the car starts and hits the desired speed, the driver is mostly factored out of course. Maybe some do it the old fashioned way with a green light? I haven't looked, but do the numbers skew the same way among publications for models like Ioniq and Prius?