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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I got the chance to drive a 2019 Toyota Camry SE for a week.

Likes

  • Digital Speedometer/Tire pressure of each wheel on instrument panel.
  • The trunk opens all the way up when you pop it open
  • Sunglass holder :cool:
  • Steering the car felt almost as responsive as the Insight and better than my previous Ford Fusion.
  • Comfy seats and comfy armrest
  • Big trunk
  • The Camry felt oddly similar in size as the Insight when I was in the driver seat. I adjusted to driving and parking the Camry quickly.
  • Back-up camera is dead center so it made perfectly lining up into a spot easier.
  • The gas pedal felt like sport mode in the Insight so I drove it with more of a lead foot but still got pretty close to EPA city/highway estimates(with warm engine) for the car. Cold engine was around 5mpg less.

Dislikes

  • The infotainment system has a small screen with low resolution(480p?) and outdated user interface. I didn't even bother messing around with it except to turn on the radio.
  • 1 USB port and that USB port didn't even supply enough power to keep my dashcam on unlike on the Insight.
  • The digital screen behind the instrument panel is smaller than the DII on the Insight. It's sandwiched between the speedometer and tachometer.
  • The engine is kind of loud on this car and you will always hear it when accelerating.
  • Something is wrong with the transmission on the Camry(not just this particular car I drove and owners on Edmunds are complaining about it, too). I had a couple of instances where it hesitated to accelerate for the first 2 seconds and then it jerks you forward. This was a major problem on highways and intersections with stop signs trying to merge. I would see a short window with an open space to merge but the car hesitates to respond quickly for the first 2 seconds or so after hitting the gas pedal. The delayed acceleration issue doesn't seem to happen when you sort of don't floor the gas pedal.
  • The trunk opening by itself could also be a negative when it comes to closing which requires more strength to slam it shut.
  • No walk away auto lock, no push button start, no trunk opener button on the outside(I couldn't find one), and no grabbing the door handle to unlock. Everything needs to be done the old fashion way by taking out the keyfob and pushing buttons.
  • No brake hold and no e-brake. The parking brake is a foot pedal like on my previous 14 CRV.
  • I like the stiff doors on the Insight as a personal preference for times like windy days. The Camry doors feel kind of floppy like my 09 Civic.
This isn't really a serious comparison between the Camry and Insight but more of a small review of my week with the car. :smile:
 

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Maybe they're similar/related enough since same model... but was the 2019 Toyota Camry the 'traditional' SE trim (203 HP, 2.5L, 4 cylinder, 8-speed - 32 mpg combined), or the Hybrid SE trim (208 HP 2.5L 4-cylinder eCVT - 46 mpg combined)? Assume it was the hybrid trim, since compared to Insight?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Maybe they're similar/related enough since same model... but was the 2019 Toyota Camry the 'traditional' SE trim (203 HP, 2.5L, 4 cylinder, 8-speed - 32 mpg combined), or the Hybrid SE trim (208 HP 2.5L 4-cylinder eCVT - 46 mpg combined)? Assume it was the hybrid trim, since compared to Insight?
It's the regular gas version so not the hybrid.
 

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Also, your perception of the Camry and Insight being similar-sized from interior is dead-on. The Insight is really mid-sized by EPA definition based on passenger/cargo volume, and it makes my eyes roll every time I hear Honda refer to the Insight as 'Compact.'

2019 Camry SE vs 2019 Insight Hybrid EX
Vehicle Length - Camry = 192.7" | Insight = 183.6"
Vehicle Width - Camry = 72.4" | Insight = 71.6"
Turning Radius - Camry = 19.0' | Insight = 17.9'
Wheelbase - Camry = 111.2" | Insight = 106.3"

Passenger Volume - Camry = 100 cu ft | Insight = 98 cu ft
Front Legroom - Camry = 42.1" | Insight = 42.3"
Front Headroom - Camry = 38.3" | Insight = 39.3"
Front Hip Room - Camry = 55.4" | Insight = 53.7"
Front Shoulder Room - Camry = 57.7" | Insight = 56.9"
Rear Legroom - Camry = 38.0" | Insight = 37.4"
Rear Headroom - Camry = 38.0" | Insight = 36.9"
Rear Hip Room - Camry = 54.7" | Insight = 47.3"
Rear Shoulder Room - Camry = 55.7" | Insight = 55.0"
Cargo Volume - Camry = 15.1 cu ft | Insight = 15.1 cu ft
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Also, your perception of the Camry and Insight being similar-sized from interior is dead-on. The Insight is really mid-sized by EPA definition based on passenger/cargo volume, and it makes my eyes roll every time I hear Honda refer to the Insight as 'Compact.'

2019 Camry SE vs 2019 Insight Hybrid EX
Vehicle Length - Camry = 192.7" | Insight = 183.6"
Vehicle Width - Camry = 72.4" | Insight = 71.6"
Turning Radius - Camry = 19.0' | Insight = 17.9'
Wheelbase - Camry = 111.2" | Insight = 106.3"

Passenger Volume - Camry = 100 cu ft | Insight = 98 cu ft
Front Legroom - Camry = 42.1" | Insight = 42.3"
Front Headroom - Camry = 38.3" | Insight = 39.3"
Front Hip Room - Camry = 55.4" | Insight = 53.7"
Front Shoulder Room - Camry = 57.7" | Insight = 56.9"
Rear Legroom - Camry = 38.0" | Insight = 37.4"
Rear Headroom - Camry = 38.0" | Insight = 36.9"
Rear Hip Room - Camry = 54.7" | Insight = 47.3"
Rear Shoulder Room - Camry = 55.7" | Insight = 55.0"
Cargo Volume - Camry = 15.1 cu ft | Insight = 15.1 cu ft
That's kind of surprising. Makes you wonder if the Insight is a fair comparison to the Hybrid Camrys(crazy bargain on the Insight if so :p). The cargo volume is the same... Why did it looked bigger to me? :plain:
 

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[*]Something is wrong with the transmission on the Camry(not just this particular car I drove and owners on Edmunds are complaining about it, too). I had a couple of instances where it hesitated to accelerate for the first 2 seconds and then it jerks you forward. This was a major problem on highways and intersections with stop signs trying to merge. I would see a short window with an open space to merge but the car hesitates to respond quickly for the first 2 seconds or so after hitting the gas pedal. The delayed acceleration issue doesn't seem to happen when you sort of don't floor the gas pedal.
Yesssss... this engine hesitation was what took the Camry off my list, even though I REALLY wanted to give Toyota a try because of their reliability history. It was a noticeable acceleration delay, and a shaky/shuddering response - almost like the car was running on gas fumes.

The sales person said the car would "learn my driving patterns over time" and I gave him serious side-eye over that. I want a car that drives well at the outset, BEFORE it starts learning my driving patterns. Sheesh.

https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/153-2019-powertrain-technical-discussion/3156-engine-control-unit-ecu-learning-reset.html
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Yesssss... this engine hesitation was what took the Camry off my list, even though I REALLY wanted to give Toyota a try because of their reliability history. It was a noticeable acceleration delay, and a shaky/shuddering response - almost like the car was running on gas fumes.

The sales person said the car would "learn my driving patterns over time" and I gave him serious side-eye over that. I want a car that drives well at the outset, BEFORE it starts learning my driving patterns. Sheesh.

https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/153-2019-powertrain-technical-discussion/3156-engine-control-unit-ecu-learning-reset.html
I had a butt clench moment on my first day driving the Camry without knowing about this particular issue, lol. Was merging onto the main road with a truck coming. Floored the gas pedal and felt the hesitation for 2 seconds then it surges forward. I got honked at because he had to hit his brakes for me to not get rear ended. After consistently experiencing this problem with the car. I decided not to merge on short notice anymore. Which made it difficult to drive because here in Boston people expect you to merge quickly and not impede traffic.

I wouldn't buy the Camry even if it didn't have this issue. My main gripe is the lack of modern tech features I expect from a car in 2019.
 

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I had a butt clench moment on my first day driving the Camry without knowing about this particular issue, lol. Was merging onto the main road with a truck coming. Floored the gas pedal and felt the hesitation for 2 seconds then it surges forward. I got honked at because he had to hit his brakes for me to not get rear ended. After consistently experiencing this problem with the car. I decided not to merge on short notice anymore. Which made it difficult to drive because here in Boston people expect you to merge quickly and not impede traffic.

I wouldn't buy the Camry even if it didn't have this issue. My main gripe is the lack of modern tech features I expect from a car in 2019.
This issue is caused by the 8 speed transmission on the Camry. Throttle response was never an issue with the 5 or 6 speed transmission previously used in Camrys. Same goes to the Lexus ES 350. The 6 speed ES 350 up to 2018 model year sends torque straight to the wheels upon feathering the throttle, it almost feel like it was drive-by-cable. Model year 2019 and up had slower throttle response possibly to minimize torque steer.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This issue is caused by the 8 speed transmission on the Camry. Throttle response was never an issue with the 5 or 6 speed transmission previously used in Camrys. Same goes to the Lexus ES 350. The 6 speed ES 350 up to 2018 model year sends torque straight to the wheels upon feathering the throttle, it almost feel like it was drive-by-cable. Model year 2019 and up had slower throttle response possibly to minimize torque steer.
Originally, the move to the eight-speed automatic was intended to improve fuel economy. In our tests, the new Highlander returned a 2 mpg improvement compared with the last model, bumping it to 22 from 20 mpg overall. The Sienna, however, saw a 1 mpg improvement, going to 21 from 20 mpg overall. Unfortunately, we found that shifting remains less smooth for both compared with the previous six-speed automatic in pre-2017 models. https://www.consumerreports.org/toyota/2017-toyota-highlander-sienna-transmissions-updated-to-shift-smoother/
https://global.toyota/en/powertrain/transmission/

They did it to improve fuel economy by 1 to 2 mpgs. :confused:
 

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That's kind of surprising. Makes you wonder if the Insight is a fair comparison to the Hybrid Camrys(crazy bargain on the Insight if so :p). The cargo volume is the same... Why did it looked bigger to me? :plain:
The Insights more direct comparison would be the Corolla Hybrid, the Accord Hybrid would be a better match (at least price points and horsepower) to the Camry.
 
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