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Hello, currently in the market for a '21 EX White w/Ivory interior. Been in talks w/at least 5 different dealers and all within $1k in their quotes. I've got my top two that are the furthest apart at $1k but with better service incentives after the sale compared to the rest that offer only the regular first oil change free or first year maintenance free. The following are the details, price is OTD:

Dealer A = $25,499.66; includes lifetime oil changes, free lifetime diagnostics checks, 1 yr theft protection (no clue what that entails), protection package (all weather floor mats & cargo tray, wheel locks, window tint, mud guards and free tire repair for life.

Dealer B = $24,900 ($24500 possibly); 100k maintenance plan (still need complete details on what it includes but from what I gathered briefly, covers oil changes, tire rotation & balance and repairs, key fob replacement, maybe one or two other things) and same protection package as Dealer A.

Looking forward to your opinions and thoughts on what the better deal you think is and any further negotiations you think I can swing. Thanks!
 

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Hello, currently in the market for a '21 EX White w/Ivory interior. Been in talks w/at least 5 different dealers and all within $1k in their quotes. I've got my top two that are the furthest apart at $1k but with better service incentives after the sale compared to the rest that offer only the regular first oil change free or first year maintenance free. The following are the details, price is OTD:

Dealer A = $25,499.66; includes lifetime oil changes, free lifetime diagnostics checks, 1 yr theft protection (no clue what that entails), protection package (all weather floor mats & cargo tray, wheel locks, window tint, mud guards and free tire repair for life.

Dealer B = $24,900 ($24500 possibly); 100k maintenance plan (still need complete details on what it includes but from what I gathered briefly, covers oil changes, tire rotation & balance and repairs, key fob replacement, maybe one or two other things) and same protection package as Dealer A.

Looking forward to your opinions and thoughts on what the better deal you think is and any further negotiations you think I can swing. Thanks!
If you have a Sam's Club or Costco membership, it's worth checking out their auto-buying programs. It'll get you pretty close to your best price without having to do any haggling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If you have a Sam's Club or Costco membership, it's worth checking out their auto-buying programs. It'll get you pretty close to your best price without having to do any haggling.
I do not have a membership to either. My thoughts are that I will counter 24k OTD cash to both and see who bites. Though I am just in the homework phase so I am not quite ready to pull the trigger right this moment.
 

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I do not have a membership to either. My thoughts are that I will counter 24k OTD cash to both and see who bites. Though I am just in the homework phase so I am not quite ready to pull the trigger right this moment.
Welcome to the forum. Maybe as a cross-check, compare/calculate up from the lowest dealer cost basis and latest Insight incentives... and 'ignore' the value of the service/accessory add-ins offered by each dealer since they cost the dealer 'nothing' and unless/until you can get more detail on each to fully compare.

2021 InsightInvoice PriceDestination FeeHoldbackDealer Cost
LX2130495545921800
EX2304495549623503
Touring2677595557727153

Deducting the current $500 'unadvertised' dealer incentive from the dealer cost listed above, suggests a 'fair' dealer price for an EX should be around 23003 plus the taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.

As another comparison, CarGurus leaves out the destination fee in the numbers they report, but adding the 955 to the lowest listed "great price" totals 22711 plus the taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.
6201


Similarly, TrueCar suggests an 'excellent' price for the EX is below 22744 plus taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.
1608236081340.png


Assuming 8% for taxes/licensing fees, a rough OTD target range would be about 24563 to 24843. Maybe if you 'remind' Dealer B about the $500 unadvertised dealer incentive, it would bring them into this range. And then you could make one last play at a final lower price by taking the revised price to Dealer A.

Also, if the dealers haven't yet provided, ask for a breakdown of the components in the out-the-door price. You can tell them it's to "make the signing/purchase easier" but also use the information to directly compare what each dealer is including.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Welcome to the forum. Maybe as a cross-check, compare/calculate up from the lowest dealer cost basis and latest Insight incentives... and 'ignore' the value of the service/accessory add-ins offered by each dealer since they cost the dealer 'nothing' and unless/until you can get more detail on each to fully compare.

2021 InsightInvoice PriceDestination FeeHoldbackDealer Cost
LX2130495545921800
EX2304495549623503
Touring2677595557727153

Deducting the current $500 'unadvertised' dealer incentive from the dealer cost listed above, suggests a 'fair' dealer price for an EX should be around 23003 plus the taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.

As another comparison, CarGurus leaves out the destination fee in the numbers they report, but adding the 955 to the lowest listed "great price" totals 22711 plus the taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.
View attachment 6201

Similarly, CarGurus suggests an 'excellent' price for the EX is below 22744 plus taxes/licensing fees for your state/county.
View attachment 6202

Assuming 8% for taxes/licensing fees, a rough OTD target range would be about 24563 to 24843. Maybe if you 'remind' Dealer B about the $500 unadvertised dealer incentive, it would bring them into this range. And then you could make one last play at a final lower price by taking the revised price to Dealer A.

Also, if the dealers haven't yet provided, ask for a breakdown of the components in the out-the-door price. You can tell them it's to "make the signing/purchase easier" but also use the information to directly compare what each dealer is including.

Good luck!
Hey, thanks for that great information, greatly appreciated!
 

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I'm looking at getting a 2021 Insight EX and got a couple of quotes from $25.5k-$26.4k OTD ($23.1k-$24.5k before TTL) in Philadelphia area (8% tax). Seems high to me but who know with today's market.

Also should I be worried that there's no spare tire?
 

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I'm looking at getting a 2021 Insight EX and got a couple of quotes from $25.5k-$26.4k OTD ($23.1k-$24.5k before TTL) in Philadelphia area (8% tax). Seems high to me but who know with today's market.

Also should I be worried that there's no spare tire?
Welcome to the forum. Current listed invoice price for a 2021 EX is up +$200 versus summary in post #4 above, per same website Net of destination fee and dealer holdback, $23.7k is a reasonable base price before TTL and add-ons.

Looks like Honda still increased pricing (+$200) as they'd do when a new model comes out (or new calendar year starts?), even though the new 2022 Insight model hasn't come out yet. But they also increased the unadvertised incentive by same amount to offset the increase. There was a $750 unadvertised rebate (formerly $500) that just lapsed 5/3/21, but if you can negotiate to include it, targeting a $23k price point is a fair price. Anything you can negotiate (or get add-ons) below that would be a good deal.

You could try to negotiate spare tire as an add-on to the purchase. Dealers value it at ~$400 (MSRP) which is overpriced but may be worth it to you. Otherwise, you should be able to find a spare from a GenX Civic from scrap yard or eBay for $100-$200. It fits perfectly into the Insight, as the two cars share same platform.
 

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How does one go about obtaining (some of?) the unadvertised rebate?

Is it a direct: "I know of the unadvertised rebate of $XX, I was hoping we could use that as part of the negotiation."
Is it something you introduce off the cuff: "I was really hoping to get the price down a little bit lower, is there anything you can do?"
Is it something you use as part of an offer: "I was offered $XXXX at Bob's Junk O' rama and Fleecing, can you do better on this price?"

It strikes me as something they would vehemently deny existing, and only use to "work over" a potential buyer on the cusp of a purchase. Yea, I'm not too fond of dealers.
 

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How does one go about obtaining (some of?) the unadvertised rebate?

Is it a direct: "I know of the unadvertised rebate of $XX, I was hoping we could use that as part of the negotiation."
Is it something you introduce off the cuff: "I was really hoping to get the price down a little bit lower, is there anything you can do?"
Is it something you use as part of an offer: "I was offered $XXXX at Bob's Junk O' rama and Fleecing, can you do better on this price?"

It strikes me as something they would vehemently deny existing, and only use to "work over" a potential buyer on the cusp of a purchase. Yea, I'm not too fond of dealers.
I've only met one person in my lifetime who enjoys "doing the dance" back and forth with dealers; it takes a certain personality to find it fun. I'd try a phased approach:
1 - See what the dealer offers. You can do this online to get a sense for starting prices and who is more willing to negotiate.
2 - Do your own research ahead of time to know what the car costs the dealer. Back the unadvertised rebate (plus additional amount - leave room for counteroffer) out of the price and make that your offer.
3 - If dealer balks that your offer is too low, share what you know about pricing, unadvertised rebate, etc. Maybe come up a little in your offer OR ask for accessories/add-ons that have value to you to offset price difference.
 

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I think many dealers have earned the rep, but I understand they need to make money.

I have an offer on the table, and if all goes well, I'll pick up a '21 Silver Insight EX tomorrow. OTD is $24,500 which I thought was pretty fair. Ultimately comes out to ~12.3% off MSRP, which TrueCar suggests is a great price. I didn't ask about the rebate directly, but used a bit of your #2 and my #3. Mentioned flat out that I'm not paying for dealer installed accessories, so take them out or include them in the price. I may have been able to negotiate further but I wanted this done quickly and I do like the dealer I'm working with.
 

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I agree with you completely. I was going to wait out the 2022 Insight, but the chip shortage, potential fuel shortages, my current car continuing to fall apart and life changes made me need to pull the trigger now. Inventory seems to be tightening so $24.5k is more than fair for what I'm aiming for. We are upgrading my wife's 2019 CR-V for a 2021 CR-V Hybrid for ~$2500 more, all for the same chip/fuel reasons.

One dealer I was chatting with claimed prices were going up come May 3, so I ignored them and found someone who wanted to help me buy a car, not sell me a car and fear.
 

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How does one go about obtaining (some of?) the unadvertised rebate?

Is it a direct: "I know of the unadvertised rebate of $XX, I was hoping we could use that as part of the negotiation."
Is it something you introduce off the cuff: "I was really hoping to get the price down a little bit lower, is there anything you can do?"
Is it something you use as part of an offer: "I was offered $XXXX at Bob's Junk O' rama and Fleecing, can you do better on this price?"

It strikes me as something they would vehemently deny existing, and only use to "work over" a potential buyer on the cusp of a purchase. Yea, I'm not too fond of dealers.
The rebate is from Honda to the dealership and they can do with it however they want. Share some with the customer or keep it for themselves as a bonus for selling a particular vehicle. How you get it is by asking for quotes from all the Honda dealerships in the area you're willing to travel to that has the vehicle configuration you want. Let them know you're serious about completing the purchase this week. Don't tell them who gave you the lowest offer or make up a number. They'll know the offer is realistic(at least the sales manager) even if they say it's not possible. If they offer to price match with proof or not budging move onto the next dealership. You keep bouncing the lowest offer you get until there aren't anymore dealerships willing to compete for your purchase. The final lowest offer most likely has the unadvertised rebate built into the offer to get that low. No guarantees that it's the full unadvertised amount but you'll know that dealership is sharing a good chunk of it at least.

If you directly ask them about the Honda to dealership cash they'll either tell you the offer they gave you includes that already or deny it exist.

My tip won't always work due to timing and inventory. Like if you ask them during the weekend they'll most likely ignore you. I would do it on a day where business is slow like a day with bad weather near the end of the month. Also if you're looking for a color/trim that's low on inventory they'll ignore you, too.
 

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I assumed as much for all that you said. I was curious because I usually see, on other websites/forums and this one to a minor extent, people speak of the dealer incentive as if it's a buyer guarantee and should be factored into their negotiations. They usually speak about it as an all or nothing, make-sure-you-get-it incentive, when the buyer has no control over any of it. Yet, I have never seen anyone mention it when they itemize their OTD price. Like mentioned before, it's probably somewhat used by dealers when trying to offer competitive pricing.
 

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I assumed as much for all that you said. I was curious because I usually see, on other websites/forums and this one to a minor extent, people speak of the dealer incentive as if it's a buyer guarantee and should be factored into their negotiations. They usually speak about it as an all or nothing, make-sure-you-get-it incentive, when the buyer has no control over any of it. Yet, I have never seen anyone mention it when they itemize their OTD price. Like mentioned before, it's probably somewhat used by dealers when trying to offer competitive pricing.
I bought my 2019 Insight EX when it was totally new (no incentives offered in Oct 2018). Maybe Toyota is unique (?) but when we bought a 2020 Corolla SE last year, there was a $1500 incentive going and the dealer listed it as a specific additional line item on the contract. We negotiated based on OTD price and included/deducted the incentive in the offers we made.
 

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I bought my 2019 Insight EX when it was totally new (no incentives offered in Oct 2018). Maybe Toyota is unique (?) but when we bought a 2020 Corolla SE last year, there was a $1500 incentive going and the dealer listed it as a specific additional line item on the contract. We negotiated based on OTD price and included/deducted the incentive in the offers we made.
Interesting! That'll teach me to speak in absolutes. Still, I'm happy to have learned more about the incentive and how it's negotiated.
 

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I bought my 2019 Insight EX when it was totally new (no incentives offered in Oct 2018). Maybe Toyota is unique (?) but when we bought a 2020 Corolla SE last year, there was a $1500 incentive going and the dealer listed it as a specific additional line item on the contract. We negotiated based on OTD price and included/deducted the incentive in the offers we made.
Toyota does cash to customer incentives and so does Honda sometimes. When it's a cash to customer incentive they'll disclose that on the contract. Another incentive is Conquest/Loyalty. Like if the automaker wants to give you a bonus for switching brands or when you own an older car from the same automaker. That incentive would also show up on the contract.

Manufacturer to Dealer incentives do not show up on a contract even if they factor some of it in your offer.
 

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I think many dealers have earned the rep, but I understand they need to make money.

I have an offer on the table, and if all goes well, I'll pick up a '21 Silver Insight EX tomorrow. OTD is $24,500 which I thought was pretty fair. Ultimately comes out to ~12.3% off MSRP, which TrueCar suggests is a great price. I didn't ask about the rebate directly, but used a bit of your #2 and my #3. Mentioned flat out that I'm not paying for dealer installed accessories, so take them out or include them in the price. I may have been able to negotiate further but I wanted this done quickly and I do like the dealer I'm working with.
I live in the Philly area, and I bought an 2020 Insight EX for $26k last year (with about $500 of stuff like weather mats and splash guards and protectants) so roughly $25.5k compared to your $24,500, especially considering that the 2021 actually went up in price compared to the 2020. So I would go ahead and pull the trigger.

Also, rebates are money from the manufacturer. If the rebate is expired, it's expired. So asking for them to honor an expired rebate is the same as asking the dealership to cut their price by $X with no subsidy from the manufacturer. In a car like the Insight at the price you're getting, you aren't going to really get any lower than that, and it is almost 0% chance they'll honor an expired rebate. So I think you did great and I would definitely pull the trigger at that price!
 

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Also, rebates are money from the manufacturer. If the rebate is expired, it's expired. So asking for them to honor an expired rebate is the same as asking the dealership to cut their price by $X with no subsidy from the manufacturer. In a car like the Insight at the price you're getting, you aren't going to really get any lower than that, and it is almost 0% chance they'll honor an expired rebate. So I think you did great and I would definitely pull the trigger at that price!
One benefit in asking is to see if the dealer has visibility to incentives/promotion other than what is publicly available (i.e. even websites get timing and amounts wrong). For example, the $750 incentive which ended 5/3/21 and was still posted on CarsDirect as of 5/5, is now posted with extension thru 7/3/21 as of 5/7. Or hopefully there might be something else even better that we don't get visibility to, if we ask. Asking costs nothing, and can give (some) confidence that no stones are left unturned. :)
 

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I live in the Philly area, and I bought an 2020 Insight EX for $26k last year (with about $500 of stuff like weather mats and splash guards and protectants) so roughly $25.5k compared to your $24,500, especially considering that the 2021 actually went up in price compared to the 2020. So I would go ahead and pull the trigger.

Also, rebates are money from the manufacturer. If the rebate is expired, it's expired. So asking for them to honor an expired rebate is the same as asking the dealership to cut their price by $X with no subsidy from the manufacturer. In a car like the Insight at the price you're getting, you aren't going to really get any lower than that, and it is almost 0% chance they'll honor an expired rebate. So I think you did great and I would definitely pull the trigger at that price!
Thanks. I'm definitely pulling the trigger on this one. Like I said, I probably could have negotiated a bit more, but I think $24.5k is more than fair.

About the rebate, I was just curious how people used it in their negotiations. It seems to be brought up pretty frequently, but I hadn't seen tactics to get any/all of it. CarsDirect states "Buyers can combine this cash incentive with the low APR listed above," as if it's a given that you'll get some/all of it if you bring it up.
 

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Thanks. I'm definitely pulling the trigger on this one. Like I said, I probably could have negotiated a bit more, but I think $24.5k is more than fair.

About the rebate, I was just curious how people used it in their negotiations. It seems to be brought up pretty frequently, but I hadn't seen tactics to get any/all of it. CarsDirect states "Buyers can combine this cash incentive with the low APR listed above," as if it's a given that you'll get some/all of it if you bring it up.
"Remember, this dealer cash incentive is passed to the dealerships to do with as they please, even pocket it as profit. Shop around to find the most generous offers.
Buyers can combine this cash incentive with the low APR listed above."
The tactic I wrote earlier is the only way for you to know you're getting some of it if you're referring about the manufacturer to dealer incentive. That's why carsdirect wrote "Shop around to find the most generous offers". If you ask for quotes from like 10 dealerships you're bound to get a wide range of offers. Your highest and lowest can be a couple thousand dollars apart and that's before you even bounce the lowest offer around. At least that's what happened for me when I bought my Insight and helped my uncle buy his 2020 CRV Hybrid and 2020 Subaru Outback. You probably won't see that crazy of a spread now due to vehicle shortages but the asking for quotes tactic would still work to some extent for the manufacturer to dealership incentive.

One benefit in asking is to see if the dealer has visibility to incentives/promotion other than what is publicly available (i.e. even websites get timing and amounts wrong). For example, the $750 incentive which ended 5/3/21 and was still posted on CarsDirect as of 5/5, is now posted with extension thru 7/3/21 as of 5/7. Or hopefully there might be something else even better that we don't get visibility to, if we ask. Asking costs nothing, and can give (some) confidence that no stones are left unturned. :)
Dealerships will tell you about the public incentives for customers but not the private ones between the manufacturer and dealership. It's money that's intended for them to move a particular vehicle or for meeting quotas. They've no reason to let you know about it so you can use it against them during negotiation. Places like Carsdirect, Costco Auto, and Edmunds pay a third party for that information.

I learned most of my car buying secrets from James Bragg. Been using his tips everytime I buy a new car. Fighting Chance: Your Customized Solution to Getting the Best Car Deal
 
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