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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

So this has happened twice to me recently.

After a long highway trip, I get off the highway, I come to a stop, and the engine doesn't turn off. I press EV, and it says: Battery Temperature At Limit.

This happened yesterday, it was only 77F outside, and I had the AC at 70F the whole time (about 1h30). I was going pretty fast on the highway, and it was rather hilly (I mean, as hilly as Massachusetts can get), so yeah the engine did get a workout, but I don't know why the battery wasn't cooled by the cabin AC.

And why wasn't the battery fan revved up? That would be the way to cool the battery no? And the fan works, I heard it earlier, just not hen I got off the highway.

It's a little scary, I can only imagine when it will be 95 F this summer...

2019 Touring with 13,000 miles.

Speedometer Vehicle Motor vehicle Steering part Odometer
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys, so we can all agree it is abnormal given my driving conditions?

I don't have kids/pets or friends :LOL:, so the rear seats are virtually never used. There should not be any dust but I'll vacuum anyways ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ugh -- made an appointment online but they only had a spot in ten days (Honda Everett). Will I have a better chance if I call them? Like do they have earlier appointment for real problems? @andrew28
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK internet friends, I am just out of the dealer. They replaced the 12V AGM battery and said: "the 12 volt battery was not commanding the cooling fan on the PCU was not turning on due to low voltage". $0 (under warranty still).

I cannot be sure that it fixed the problem (traffic is absolutely mad in Boston right now, cannot do highway speeds), but I already noticed that the fan seems to kick in more. Also using my OBD reader, I noticed that the idle current is now 0.2A (it was never below 0.7A before, so it was probably always trying to charge the 12v). And also my battery died last winter so that part makes sense, at least.

I'll post an update if I still have the issue.

Thanks for the help!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Update: I don't want to jinx it but I think (and hope) the problem is solved. Did a couple of 2h hwy trips and the fan was kicking in just fine. MPG is as good if not better than before (but also temps are optimal these days).

So yeah... check your 12V folks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Annnnnt there you go again. 2 hr highway trip, fast speeds, 90°F. Nothing too extreme especially if that car is sold in Mexico. Engine would not turn off at idle, battery at max level.

I am pretty upset, I thought they fixed it. Warranty expires in 3 months.



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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Besides possible temperature sensor or fan failure. There's another possible reason why EV mode is not available. @Mobilcams provided a good explanation about this in the past.
Thanks Andrew. Definitely interesting, but I would think the car had ample time to burn canister fumes in 2 hours of highway. Plus, this issue happened from the highway to my place, so TWO miles, with a resulting disgusting 32 mpg (should have been around 70mpg easy). I doubt Honda would design to allow that...

I am sure Honda dealership is going to give me an hard time. They of course wont be able to reproduce unless they drive 2 hours at max+ speeds, which they won't do...


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This not normal.
Check the following:
1. Visually inspect the radiators for clogging of the cells with dirt, plant fluff and insects.
2. You need to check the 12 volt battery level again. If it is discharged, then you need to look for the reason why. Problems can be both in charge and in increased consumption by one of the consumers (that's why I entered point 1).
3.High voltage battery vent must be open.

Well, if this does not work, then you need to go to the dealer and let them look for the cause by checking:
1.12 volt battery
2.Charging a 12 volt battery
3. Consumption in the 12 volt circuit of all significant consumers (air conditioner, radiator fans, high-voltage battery cooling, ....)
4.Checking the high-voltage battery cooling system for operability. (air flow, fan operation, cleanliness, etc.)
Thanks Lavash. Do you know where is the HV battery vent?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ah ok thanks. I only have 15k miles and I really avoid dirt roads like the plague so the bottom vent shouldn't be clogged. I also always make sure the vent under the rear seat is always clear. Also no pets/ no kids (yet).
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
So the folks at Honda drove the car a little bit and of course were not able to reproduce it. They told me they have to reproduce the issue because there is no error code so that's the only way to fix it. They offered to give the car to a technician who lives an hour away and would drive it to home and to work... I refused, because this only happened one time out of eight 2-hr trips I have taken in the last 2 months so the odds that it happens again are super low, especially if they drive in boston traffic at low speed.

So I'm ready to wait and see if maybe the issue because worse and in that case they could fix it. My concern is that my warranty ends mid-November. Can I make them put on paper that this issue will be fixed for free after it expires since I told them about it before?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
If it's the battery module fan or temp sensor you're good for 15 years/150k miles in MA. Doesn't hurt to ask if you can get this noted in writing for future purposes in case it turns out to be something else.
Awesome thanks, that is exactly what I was wondering about.

In addition to the great information provided above, I recommend printing out the relevant parts of the Accord Hybrid thread that I linked to earlier. Give it to your service advisor and ask for their opinion. If you don't get a satisfactory response, escalate the issue to your local Honda liaison.
I did start to talk about it with the advisor, I even started by saying a friendly "I know you guys probably hate to hear that but I read on the forum...". He barely listened and said "Yeah... we'll figure it out". These guys are tough to work with, they rush you out when you drop the car in the garage and they don't really want to know details.

I was thinking of either reaching to the service manager or to Honda Corporate, but if this is covered by the 15 yr warranty then I won't bother. It's intermittent enough that it doesn't ruin my life for now...

I was also baffled they they couldn't figure it out from Sunday night logs (when it happened). They should have clearly see the battery temp take off... unless they somehow don't log it? My OBD reader doesn't list it but I thought they could get more than me?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
This is what you get with the dealership model of servicing vehicles. The service advisor isn't there to help solve car troubles. He's a salesman but in the service department to sell you expensive repairs. If you're not there to pay for repairs you're wasting his time cause he has quotas to meet. The ones that don't sell enough repairs won't be there the next time you visit. Warranty repairs don't pay as much as a regular customer repair. So if the service department is having a busy month they would rather do as little warranty related repairs.

The techs are paid a high hourly rate so it's in the dealerships best interest to have techs working on higher paying customer repairs. Also diagnosing a vehicle with an issue that can't be replicated right there hurts the bottom line. The automaker doesn't pay the dealership unless the issue is found and a claim is made for a repair. The tech still needs to be paid for the time trying to find the problem. This is pretty much the reason why most people feel ignored when bringing up vehicle issues at a dealership. Dealerships have every reason to avoid warranty related repairs. It doesn't make financial sense to them.

Your best bet would be to talk directly to a tech if you can get the service manager to arrange that for you. A tech doesn't have to sell you anything or require to in order to get paid. They would be able to explain what they can do better on a technical level and hear your full description of the problem. The hard task is being able to speak directly with one since dealerships like to put a service advisor as a barrier between the tech and the customer. As I explained earlier, a service advisor in most situations isn't looking out for your interest.
100%!!!

The tricky part here is that no error code was thrown, even though it's purely an electronic issue and not a mechanical one. I'm guessing if the temperature outside is 145°F and you are driving with the windows open, then the battery will overheat and it's nobody's fault? Still, if it was good engineering the system should check for the external temp and throw a code if the outside temp is reasonable.

But anyways, it's pretty sad what you're saying. I thought buying a brand new car would free me of all issues... I guess my (our) biggest mistake was buying the least sold Honda ever (?)... not enough people to report problems...
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
The fact it's not consistent and it only happened once out of 8 trips so far opens the possibility it was purging emissions or prioritizing the battery health due to driving conditions at that moment. If the high voltage battery system was truly overheating you would start seeing the power system indicator light come on. Along with reduce acceleration power and go into limp mode.

How did your battery get charged to 100%? Was it mostly through the gas engine or were you going down a long mountain/hill? If the mountain/hill descent was steep enough I could see the regeneration system charging the battery at such a high rate it would've overheated the battery but not severely enough to go into limp mode.


Vehicles are complex mechanical objects with many parts from different suppliers. You can't really expect any vehicle even a new one to not have some problems down the road. Buying a more popular model wouldn't really change much. It's still up to the automaker to decide whether they want to acknowledge a problem indeed does exist. They could brush it off if the percentage is small enough to be within acceptable margin of failure even if it impacts thousands of owners. That's why you often see automakers getting hit with class action lawsuits for various car models.

I'm still as happy with my Insight as when I got it almost 4 years ago. All I ever spent on it was regular maintenance and detailing stuff. I'm gonna finally get new tires for it this Winter and hope it drives better than new. :)
I don't know about limp mode, I believe the battery was completely disconnected, yet the behavior seemed normal, with the ICE revving like a normal Civic, and normal accelerations.

So when it happened, I had gone off the highway with maybe 5 bars, and then gradually it went to 10 bars, on virtually flat land. I think the battery was basically just charging during when breaking, and not discharging when accelerating. Can't be 100% sure though. But no downhill for sure.

Very happy with the car otherwise... but I know I'm going to think about it pretty much all the time I do long trips though... I'll try to plug in my OBD reader if that happens again...
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Maybe I should add that in my case, when it happened, as far as I can remember it was with relatively fast/ aggressive driving, so maybe the battery had reached a certain maximum number of cycles it can do per hour or something? But then why does it says temperature too high and the fan is not on? Or maybe the inverter temperature was too hot? And there is no cooling or whatever cooling there is was insufficient?

I mean, I am not NOT talking about doing 100mph in the mojave desert though... quite less intense that that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I've been doing lots of driving in 95+ degree weather recently with no issues. I never press the EV Mode button; I let the car do what it wants. Maybe if I pressed it I would occasionally see the same message you get, but the car runs fine. When the interior is really hot (like 100+ after baking in the sun), my fuel economy takes a dip, but once the AC catches up I get good fuel economy (50 mpg over the last 600 miles). I have covered/shaded parking at home, which probably helps. An attached garage would probably help even more (especially in the winter).
Yes actually, this is another topic but I thought somehow the AC wasn't a big it at all on the mpg. But as you said, with a hot interior, it's REALLY bad until it's regulated, like 30mpg for the first mile or smth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Just did it again after the same fast 2hr highway trip. I plugged in my OBD reader: ENGINE COOLANT WAS 203°F!! Checked the reservoir, almost empty. Could that be it? Is the engine coolant used in any ways to cool the HV battery?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Thank you, I've had my OBD reader on a lot during highway trip and it would never reach 190°, so I believe something is off! But good call I'll check again when cold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Ok yeah the reserve tank of the engine coolant is very empty with the engine cold. The radiator seemed fine though. I've ordered the OEM coolant on Amazon. Curious if it has anything to do with the battery though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Thanks @andrew28 -- OK I think we are getting closer to the problem.

First thing: I checked my OBD logs from previous long trips, engine coolant temperature NEVER exceeds 185°F, so 200°F is definitely abnormal.

Then, I looked at the EVAP on OBD logs and there you go, the valve was weirdly opened at 20% (instant of a short 100%) for all the time the engine was running at idle. See the left of the logs below, from 18h44 to 18h46.

Andrew I know you mentioned the EVAP before, good call!!

OK now maybe a theory:

1- I am on the highway, engine coolant is low so engine is running too hot, let's say 215F, but not hot enough to throw a check engine light
2- while the engine is piping hot, the EVAP cannot happen, for some reason
3- I get off the highway, the engine has time to cool a little bit
4- when the engine cools to 190-ish, the EVAP starts but because the engine is still too hot, I can only do a 20% EVAP over a long time, instead of a 100% rapidly
5- EVAP is done, engine is cooled down further, engine can now run and stop normally.

Now, what does it have to do with the battery? Maybe nothing, and maybe these fumes just needed to get out of the canister and the "Battery Temperature Too High" is bogus?

Thoughts?


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