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New car break-in period

Hiya folks. been watching a while, prob getting my Insight within the first week; still nailing down details. Question about break-in... I can't find anything in the manuals or online that details a break-in period. Any info available? Might buy one out of town but don't want to drive 100+ miles at 75 if that's not going to be good for the new engine...

Thanks.

Charlie
Kingman, AZ
 

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Hiya folks. been watching a while, prob getting my Insight within the first week; still nailing down details. Question about break-in... I can't find anything in the manuals or online that details a break-in period. Any info available? Might buy one out of town but don't want to drive 100+ miles at 75 if that's not going to be good for the new engine...

Thanks.

Charlie
Kingman, AZ
The only thing I’ve ever found is this from page 454 of the full manual.

“During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain.
Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced.”
 

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The only thing I’ve ever found is this from page 454 of the full manual.

“During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain.
Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced.”
I have many goals in life, but I'm abandoning my goal of having read more of the manual than Mr. Natural.

Wish they'd explain what "full throttle operation" is. Is that 75-80 MPH, or is that flooring it? Any chance that's an industry term?
 

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I have many goals in life, but I'm abandoning my goal of having read more of the manual than Mr. Natural.

Wish they'd explain what "full throttle operation" is. Is that 75-80 MPH, or is that flooring it? Any chance that's an industry term?
Lol! I’m retired and live in Minnesota, so I have a lot of idle time this time of year. And the phone book isn’t quite the read it once was. 😛
 

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The only thing I’ve ever found is this from page 454 of the full manual.

“During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain.
Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced.”
I have many goals in life, but I'm abandoning my goal of having read more of the manual than Mr. Natural.

Wish they'd explain what "full throttle operation" is. Is that 75-80 MPH, or is that flooring it? Any chance that's an industry term?
I'd feel confident in saying they mean don't floor it!
 

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Hi,

I was wondering how did your MPG improve/change after the break in period? I'm around 1000km (600 miles) and on my second tank and I'm seeing some crazy good trips. On my last drive to work I was able to do 80mpg. Although this was probably a fluke there were a few other drives around the 60MPG range, although my average for the last 200km is around 51MPG (I have the touring).

Not sure if it's the break in, optimal temperature (16C degree weather), or maybe my driving techniques are getting better. My drive to work is quite short, around 5 miles, so maybe I'm getting more outliers than normal but they seem to happen more frequently/consistently.

A somewhat related question, does the Insight adapt to driving patterns?
 

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Hi,

I was wondering how did your MPG improve/change after the break in period? I'm around 1000km (600 miles) and on my second tank and I'm seeing some crazy good trips. On my last drive to work I was able to do 80mpg. Although this was probably a fluke there were a few other drives around the 60MPG range, although my average for the last 200km is around 51MPG (I have the touring).

Not sure if it's the break in, optimal temperature (16C degree weather), or maybe my driving techniques are getting better. My drive to work is quite short, around 5 miles, so maybe I'm getting more outliers than normal but they seem to happen more frequently/consistently.

A somewhat related question, does the Insight adapt to driving patterns?
I doubt it adapts much, my fiancé and I have completely different driving styles, and she often gets better gas mileage than I do, even though she is much more aggressive. When I try to replicate her driving style, the car gets abysmal mileage.

I have a slightly longer final commute, but I've seen numbers from 48-80 mpg on the same drive. I regularly drive that route with no climate control, only real variables are weather and starting "state of charge" on the HV battery. It's amazing how a bar or two higher starting charge can change the fuel mileage under 10 mile trips. The longer your drive, the less SoC or other "outlying" factors will factor in, and fuel mileage gets much more consistent.
 

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Most people report gas mileage increase after their first oil change, which for most is 10-12k miles.
 

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Honda 'officially' calls the break-in period the first 600 miles (1000 km) of driving, per pg 454 of Owners Manual: "During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced."

Beyond that, I'm not convinced of break-in as a premise for increased fuel efficiency. @hasarad was getting better-than-average fuel efficiency from the start (60+ mpg) which continued through cold weather (while the rest of us saw mpg drop), got better as weather warmed after first oil change (to Mobil 1 synthetic oil). ~60 mpg seems to be the worst hasarad's car can do, regardless of warm or cold weather. But then again, we also joke that his particular car was 'built on a Tuesday' and therefore has these outstanding/anomalous mpg characteristics.

Temperature, speed, driving experience and general route (rolling terrain) are helping factors, so it's hard to decouple them from break-in as both should improve/increase with time. But I think these factors affect mpg more, based on reading experiences from other forum members.

Some related posts on break-in and mpg observations:
- @Moviemike - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/22362-post22.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/3888-post44.html
- @insightable - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/312-post8.html
- @PHILBERT - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14494-post119.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/16130-post51.html
- @markyp32 - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14526-post8.html
- @ebsandiego - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14520-post7.html
- @hasarad - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14538-post9.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/16496-post66.html and
 

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Most people report gas mileage increase after their first oil change, which for most is 10-12k miles.
From what you've learned in automotive background, are there sound reasons for mpg increase to happen after oil change (e.g. better seating, shavings/particles cleared by changing out break-in oil)? Is this a consistent pattern for gas engines, or is it specific to make/model?
 

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From what you've learned in automotive background, are there sound reasons for mpg increase to happen after oil change (e.g. better seating, shavings/particles cleared by changing out break-in oil)? Is this a consistent pattern for gas engines, or is it specific to make/model?
It's normally a few factors. Seating leads to better compression, which generally leads to more complete combustion (especially for naturally aspirated vehicles.)

Break in oil, usually is a higher viscosity or uses different additives (zinc, molybdenum etc..), so the removal of this oil and the resulting shavings of metal makes it easier for the engine to flow oil.

Also how you drive the vehicle during break in vs after break in, can also play a role on fuel economy. Especially considering that for most people, the only time they are dealing with "break in" oil, is with purchasing a new car, and learning the vehicle normally leads to better performance.

Quick googling and reading from a several sources noted that most people experience a "bump" in fuel economy around 10k miles. This is completely anecdotal though, so I take it with a grain of salt. Unfortunately for me, we got the car after it was pretty warm (60F average lows) temp, and at 10k miles it's currently down to (45F average lows) temp.

This bump in fuel economy is usually in the range of .5% to 1% on the high end, which would be more noticeable in the Insight, since the base mpg number is quite high, compared to a car getting 20mpg. This isn't exact science though, and because of the Hybrid nature of our drivetrain, I don't know exactly how much of this is purely a "broken in" gain, and outside factors would generally have a much larger impact on fuel economy.
 

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See attached graph of mpg since new. It's likely me being more in tune with the car than it is "break-in," but there was a marked increase in efficiency starting at the time of the first oil change. The July tank that nose-dived was due to a driving style change done for "testing" purposes.
 

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See attached graph of mpg since new. It's likely me being more in tune with the car than it is "break-in," but there was a marked increase in efficiency starting at the time of the first oil change. The July tank that nose-dived was due to a driving style change done for "testing" purposes.
For grins, I looked up daily hi/lo temps for days corresponding to listed fill-ups. I used average temperature in Flemington, NJ, as a mid-point in the commute.

Other than the "normal mode test" conducted for the greater good of the forum, I think it shows a pretty strong/direct correlation between mpg and temperature (i.e. same shape to curves).

So if we can all learn to better predict the weather, we can also predict our resulting mpg... (?).

For those interested in a similar exercise, this website is handy for looking up daily historical temperatures by city. (Flemington, NJ example linked here): https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/flemington/new-jersey/united-states/usnj0155/2018/1
 

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I’ve noticed no real change in gas mileage since my first oil change. It’s been pretty consistent at 55-59. I have about the most consistent altitude, temp, and driving conditions of anyone in here so I think it’s pretty representative of what can be normally expected after the first oil change. Now I have noticed in prior cars that mileage sees a minor bump up around the 30-50k mark. I’m curious to see if this car does the same.
 

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It's normally a few factors. Seating leads to better compression, which generally leads to more complete combustion (especially for naturally aspirated vehicles.)

Break in oil, usually is a higher viscosity or uses different additives (zinc, molybdenum etc..), so the removal of this oil and the resulting shavings of metal makes it easier for the engine to flow oil.

Also how you drive the vehicle during break in vs after break in, can also play a role on fuel economy. Especially considering that for most people, the only time they are dealing with "break in" oil, is with purchasing a new car, and learning the vehicle normally leads to better performance.

Quick googling and reading from a several sources noted that most people experience a "bump" in fuel economy around 10k miles. This is completely anecdotal though, so I take it with a grain of salt. Unfortunately for me, we got the car after it was pretty warm (60F average lows) temp, and at 10k miles it's currently down to (45F average lows) temp.

This bump in fuel economy is usually in the range of .5% to 1% on the high end, which would be more noticeable in the Insight, since the base mpg number is quite high, compared to a car getting 20mpg. This isn't exact science though, and because of the Hybrid nature of our drive train, I don't know exactly how much of this is purely a "broken in" gain, and outside factors would generally have a much larger impact on fuel economy.
Thanks for tech. info. regarding oil above! After years of driving old cars, prior to buying my first new car I asked many people what I could do to help the car last longer. Several told me to frequently change the oil or "always run clean oil." So that is what I've done. What I've consistently noticed is that just after an oil change, engines run quieter (a very good thing I think). In some cars, especially older ones, they seem a little peppy-er, have slightly more power (another very good thing for both mpg and general driving). With this new car, Honda offered me a free oil change, which I cashed in at 5k miles. Afterwards I noticed quieter engine sound at higher rpm's, in the orange range. In today's drive I crossed the 10k point and will be going in to the dealer for oil change next Tuesday.


In my prior gen.2 Insight and Civic Hybrid a did notice a small 2-3 mpg bump for a tankful as the odometer passed 10 -12k miles. In those cars, but to a greater degree in the gen 3 my worst tankful mpg was always the first fill-up. Usually after 3-4 fill ups I'd get the hang of driving it and mpg's would improve. However the greatest amount of improvement has been in the gen 3 ....there has been much more to figure out and experiment with, and I've had to form new habits.


So I think the break-in factor does lead to a small, but measurable, improvement in mpg over the course of 7-10 gal. fill up. However the many other factors listed also have small, but measurable, mpg improvements. Yet putting them all together they can add up to really something big!


In the drive today I was reminded of the surprising effect of temperature on mpg in this car. Its not so much the outside temp., but the engine / electrical system temperature! This means parking in the sun. Long drives followed by brief engine off periods, so the system doesn't cool down as much. Over the last several days with temps in the mid to upper 50's, sunny with dry roads, and using my landmark method I've been able to get summer time mpg's in the 70's when the power system is nicely warmed up after driving for awhile.
 

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Lower temps cool the engine a lot faster so it needs to start up more to maintain optimal temperature even without heater usage. Battery also needs to be at optimal temp for charging/discharging which can affect how much regen and battery usage is possible.

@Carfreak09 Maybe it has to do with tire tread wear? As you get less tread life you get less rolling resistance. @Moviemike I notice you have 66.6 average MPG. :devil:
 

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Lower temps cool the engine a lot faster so it needs to start up more to maintain optimal temperature even without heater usage. Battery also needs to be at optimal temp for charging/discharging which can affect how much regen and battery usage is possible.

@Carfreak09 Maybe it has to do with tire tread wear? As you get less tread life you get less rolling resistance. @Moviemike I notice you have 66.6 average MPG. :devil:
Also a note on tire wear, as your tread wears, your odometer becomes less accurate at determining fuel mileage. The balder your tires are (smaller circumference) the faster your wheel spins to cover the same distance. This is only a small percentage, but technically as tires wear, your speedometer (and odometer) "think" the car is moving faster/farther than it does with a brand new tire.

Car tires have pretty short treads compared to truck tires, so the difference is almost negligible but it does make a difference. (I decided to calculate this for a stock LX/EX wheel tire/combo). The numbers I gathered were from data sheets, and not measured in with actual tires.

A new tire (215/55r16) diameter is 25.31" and every 1/32 of wear = 0.03125". Let's say you are 6/32" worn down, that's 0.1875" diameter loss. that sounds negligible until you figure out the circumference difference.

New tire. 25.31" diameter, which is 79.4734"
Worn tire 25.31"- .1875= 25.1225" diameter, which is 78.8847" circumference.

Calculated out for revolutions per mile=
New tire (63,360/ 79.4734=) 797.25 revs/mile
Worn tire (63,360/ 78.8847=) 803.2 revs/mile

That's a .0075% increase. (As mentioned, on passenger car tires the change is minuscule). Also note that this difference is not linear, so larger diameters are affected more.

And now I've dived into a rabbit hole about rolling resistance again, I'll not drag you guys down that hole with me too :D. A More refined article talking about both diameter and rolling resistance of New-to-Worn tires.
 

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I’ve noticed no real change in gas mileage since my first oil change. It’s been pretty consistent at 55-59. I have about the most consistent altitude, temp, and driving conditions of anyone in here so I think it’s pretty representative of what can be normally expected after the first oil change. Now I have noticed in prior cars that mileage sees a minor bump up around the 30-50k mark. I’m curious to see if this car does the same.
If the mpg bump was at 30-50k for a traditional car/engine, perhaps for the Insight it would come later since the gas engine doesn't run full time (?)
 

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. @Moviemike I notice you have 66.6 average MPG. :devil:
:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:

Local topography, traffic, weather, vehicle use, etc.etc. all play their part. But I drove a gen 2 Insight and most recently a Civic Hybrid in same conditions and got 50-52 mpg on a year in year out basis (exact numbers buried in my fuelly acct.).

With this car my first fuelly measured mpg was 55.01 on 2-26-19. Most recent fill up was 69,40 mpg on 10-29-19. Most of that 14.39 mpg increase was due to button pushing stuff and associated driving style adjustments discussed here!
 
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