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Break in and MPG

22K views 53 replies 11 participants last post by  Moviemike 
#1 ·
New car break-in period

Hiya folks. been watching a while, prob getting my Insight within the first week; still nailing down details. Question about break-in... I can't find anything in the manuals or online that details a break-in period. Any info available? Might buy one out of town but don't want to drive 100+ miles at 75 if that's not going to be good for the new engine...

Thanks.

Charlie
Kingman, AZ
 
#2 ·
Hiya folks. been watching a while, prob getting my Insight within the first week; still nailing down details. Question about break-in... I can't find anything in the manuals or online that details a break-in period. Any info available? Might buy one out of town but don't want to drive 100+ miles at 75 if that's not going to be good for the new engine...

Thanks.

Charlie
Kingman, AZ
The only thing I’ve ever found is this from page 454 of the full manual.

“During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain.
Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced.”
 
#3 ·
I have many goals in life, but I'm abandoning my goal of having read more of the manual than Mr. Natural.

Wish they'd explain what "full throttle operation" is. Is that 75-80 MPH, or is that flooring it? Any chance that's an industry term?
 
#7 ·
I seem to be averaging 40 mpg and I've put 500 miles on my touring model so far.mostly highway driving. I drive it like a baby, which is irritating. I took it back to the dealer and they said it does need to " break-in". How many fillups should I go before I see an improvement? Or return the car for a "normal" one that I can drive normally and get about the same mileage with a bigger has tank so I'm not filling it up twice a week. Btw I drive under 70mph
 
#8 ·
Hybrids are more fuel efficient mainly because of the ability to run electric only at low speeds, or regen when braking.
So they get the most benefit in those driving conditions.
Driving on the highway, there is no regen, and the gas engine needs to run constantly.

On top of that if you have colder weather, you also lose the benefit, as the heat for your car needs to come from electric if the engine is not running.

So hybrids are not the be all and end all for all people.
Someone in stop and go traffic in warmer climate can save considerably.
 
#10 ·
I don't buy this reduced mpg due to "break-in" idea. Here's why. In November I did a test drive in an EX. The car had 5 miles on the odometer at the start. I drove it over a very familiar road in the 40mph area, and returned the car with something like 21 miles on it and 60+mpg. To be fair, on my best days I can get similar numbers with my Civic Hybrid on the same road.. Also, I wasn't getting the best mpg the car is capable-of, because I spent most of the trip figuring out all the various controls, rather than seeking top mpg (a long time hobby of mine).

My Civic Hybrid's EPA mpg is in the low 40's. Yet for over 30k I'm getting in the low 50's mpg. I drive with and sometimes faster than the mass of traffic, in town; 60 mph on two lane highways (speed limit 55), 70 mph on the freeway (speed limit 65). Why the 10 mpg difference? After trying some things and playing with the numbers, the explanation I came up with is; 40% mpg benefit from extra air in the tires (4 psi), 40% benefit from basic high mpg driving style practices (avoiding frequent hard acceleration / hard breaking), 20% from specialized hybrid driving skills aka "hyper miler" or "ultra miler").

For those unhappy with mpg in the low 40's, please keep in mind that the EPA highway figure is 49 for the EX and 45 for the Touring. Put some extra air in the tires, and check / adjust the pressure frequently ( I got my own air pump and pressure gauge and check them once a month.). Finally enjoy the Insight's great handling, it's acceleration capability seems similar to "normal" cars of similar size and price, and it has the option of great mpg, IF ya make the effort to adjust your driving style to get it. (Many good ideas above)
 
#11 ·
I was also getting about 37MPG average for the first 800 miles or so (touring model, eco mode), but that number improved so I'm guessing there is some kind of break-in period with these cars. I'm now at 9k miles and my lifetime average mileage is about 43MPG (80% highway miles). I do see some rural driving trips as high as 70MPG, but my frequent highway miles, especially in mountainous areas really drag down my average.
 
#12 ·
33 mpg at best...

My Insight has 2500 miles on it now and I have never got more than 33 mpg. I live in Michigan and the weather has varied from 30's to -10. In the best weather I have averaged 32-33 mpg and last week when it was awful weather I averaged 29 mpg. I only use premium gasoline. I have had the car into the dealership and they keep telling me that it just doesn't have enough miles on it yet. I have tried driving so slow that people become very annoyed with me on the road, but even that hasn't helped. This is the 4th Honda I have owned and to be honest I am seriously regretting this purchase. I got way better gas mileage in my 2011 Chevrolet Cruze ECO. Beyond frustrated & disappointed. Does anyone have this problem or heard of it?
 
#14 ·
My Insight has 2500 miles on it now and I have never got more than 33 mpg. I live in Michigan and the weather has varied from 30's to -10. In the best weather I have averaged 32-33 mpg and last week when it was awful weather I averaged 29 mpg. I only use premium gasoline. I have had the car into the dealership and they keep telling me that it just doesn't have enough miles on it yet. I have tried driving so slow that people become very annoyed with me on the road, but even that hasn't helped. This is the 4th Honda I have owned and to be honest I am seriously regretting this purchase. I got way better gas mileage in my 2011 Chevrolet Cruze ECO. Beyond frustrated & disappointed. Does anyone have this problem or heard of it?
Help us help you by giving us more info on your driving. Short or long trips? Highway or city? ECO or Sport mode? Using paddles for braking? Hilly terrain? Also, I think that premium gas is just a waste of money on this car.
 
#13 ·
Based on these observations I would have to conclude there is something wrong with the car. It was "broken in" by around 1,000 miles, and that should only make a slight difference. Premium gas is unnecessary but should not hurt. Do you typically drive up lots of steep hills? If not, something truly wrong.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Tiffburg, can you please provide us some details such as:

- Your Trim level (LX, EX, Touring)
- How long are your commutes, and what percentage of them are city driving?
- What is the average speed of your commutes (25, 35, 45, 55 mph)?
- What mode do you drive in (Normal Mode, Econ Mode, Sport Mode, combination)
- Do you ever use the regen paddles, and if so, what level do you set them at (1, 2, or 3)?
- Do you have the stock tires on your Insight, or have you replaced them (and if so, with what type of tires)?
- Do you have any excess weight in your car/trunk?
- What is the average temperate outside when you drive?
- What was your last MPG rating, and how many mile did you drive before filling up your tank?
- Do you ever see your battery charge indicator level get above 50% charged, and if so, how often? If not, how high has it gotten?
 
#17 ·
Tiffburg, can you please provide us some details such as:

- Your Trim level (LX, EX, - Touring
- How long are your commutes, and what percentage of them are city driving? It varies. I average 65% expressway, 25% rural blacktop roads, and 10% city because I live in a very small town - one end to the other is only a couple miles at most.
- What is the average speed of your commutes (25, 35, 45, 55 mph)? expressway is 65 to 75, rural roads are 55, and city is average 25 mph.
- What mode do you drive in (Normal Mode, Econ Mode, Sport Mode, combination) Rarely use sport, only for super short on-ramps with a semi coming or something like that (less than 1%), combination of normal & econ otherwise.
- Do you ever use the regen paddles, and if so, what level do you set them at (1, 2, or 3)? No, should I?
- Do you have the stock tires on your Insight, or have you replaced them (and if so, with what type of tires)? stock
- Do you have any excess weight in your car/trunk? no, I have 2 car seats in the back seat that are very light - I'm only 129 lbs & most of the time it is just me. Kids are about 25% of the time. Combined with 3 boys, we add up to ~370 lbs. Once in awhile I get groceries... otherwise nothing beyond a laptop bag, few backpacks & yoga mat.
- What is the average temperate outside when you drive? MI varies,... alot! Made it to 50 yesterday & last week was -12. Regardless of temp, the average is always 29-33 mpg.
- What was your last MPG rating, and how many mile did you drive before filling up your tank? I'm not tracking how many miles/tank as my dealer is tracking every 1000 miles & car is set for his data... Could do it old fashioned way, but didn't see the point. You think I should?
- Do you ever see your battery charge indicator level get above 50% charged, and if so, how often? If not, how high has it gotten?
I have rarely seen it about 50%. I would say maybe 20% of the time it gets above that, but never has it been more than 3/4. I coast as much as possible, have tried to drive like a grandma to the point people get road rage, super slow acceleration or tried driving different routes. Read the entire manual cover to cover. Nothing changes that 29-33 mpg. :(
 
#19 ·
Yes! @tiffburge I'm equally frustrated.

This is my sixth Honda of my life and the first one I have regretted buying. My Insight gets 12 mpg LESS than advertised in all categories. Mileage was THE reason I bought it.

My dealer gives the same excuse. "Just drive it a little more."
This is not the car that was advertised.
 
#20 ·
Yes! @tiffburge I'm equally frustrated.

This is my sixth Honda of my life and the first one I have regretted buying. My Insight gets 12 mpg LESS than advertised in all categories. Mileage was THE reason I bought it.

My dealer gives the same excuse. "Just drive it a little more."
This is not the car that was advertised.
Have you try giving Honda corporate a call? https://owners.honda.com/help/customer-relations
Maybe they can set up an arrangement with a local dealership to test your car's hybrid battery.


What's the manufacture date on your Insight? (Just curious if it was before the Mexican factory flood or after....)
 
#21 ·
Hi,

I was wondering how did your MPG improve/change after the break in period? I'm around 1000km (600 miles) and on my second tank and I'm seeing some crazy good trips. On my last drive to work I was able to do 80mpg. Although this was probably a fluke there were a few other drives around the 60MPG range, although my average for the last 200km is around 51MPG (I have the touring).

Not sure if it's the break in, optimal temperature (16C degree weather), or maybe my driving techniques are getting better. My drive to work is quite short, around 5 miles, so maybe I'm getting more outliers than normal but they seem to happen more frequently/consistently.

A somewhat related question, does the Insight adapt to driving patterns?
 
#22 ·
I doubt it adapts much, my fiancé and I have completely different driving styles, and she often gets better gas mileage than I do, even though she is much more aggressive. When I try to replicate her driving style, the car gets abysmal mileage.

I have a slightly longer final commute, but I've seen numbers from 48-80 mpg on the same drive. I regularly drive that route with no climate control, only real variables are weather and starting "state of charge" on the HV battery. It's amazing how a bar or two higher starting charge can change the fuel mileage under 10 mile trips. The longer your drive, the less SoC or other "outlying" factors will factor in, and fuel mileage gets much more consistent.
 
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#23 ·
Most people report gas mileage increase after their first oil change, which for most is 10-12k miles.
 
#24 ·
Honda 'officially' calls the break-in period the first 600 miles (1000 km) of driving, per pg 454 of Owners Manual: "During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation, avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so as not to damage the power system or powertrain. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles (300 km). You should also follow this when the brake pads are replaced."

Beyond that, I'm not convinced of break-in as a premise for increased fuel efficiency. @hasarad was getting better-than-average fuel efficiency from the start (60+ mpg) which continued through cold weather (while the rest of us saw mpg drop), got better as weather warmed after first oil change (to Mobil 1 synthetic oil). ~60 mpg seems to be the worst hasarad's car can do, regardless of warm or cold weather. But then again, we also joke that his particular car was 'built on a Tuesday' and therefore has these outstanding/anomalous mpg characteristics.

Temperature, speed, driving experience and general route (rolling terrain) are helping factors, so it's hard to decouple them from break-in as both should improve/increase with time. But I think these factors affect mpg more, based on reading experiences from other forum members.

Some related posts on break-in and mpg observations:
- @Moviemike - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/22362-post22.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/3888-post44.html
- @insightable - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/312-post8.html
- @PHILBERT - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14494-post119.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/16130-post51.html
- @markyp32 - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14526-post8.html
- @ebsandiego - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14520-post7.html
- @hasarad - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14538-post9.html and https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/16496-post66.html and
 
#27 ·
See attached graph of mpg since new. It's likely me being more in tune with the car than it is "break-in," but there was a marked increase in efficiency starting at the time of the first oil change. The July tank that nose-dived was due to a driving style change done for "testing" purposes.
 

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#28 · (Edited)
For grins, I looked up daily hi/lo temps for days corresponding to listed fill-ups. I used average temperature in Flemington, NJ, as a mid-point in the commute.
5422

Other than the "normal mode test" conducted for the greater good of the forum, I think it shows a pretty strong/direct correlation between mpg and temperature (i.e. same shape to curves).

So if we can all learn to better predict the weather, we can also predict our resulting mpg... (?).

For those interested in a similar exercise, this website is handy for looking up daily historical temperatures by city. (Flemington, NJ example linked here): Weather averages Flemington, New Jersey
 

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#29 ·
I’ve noticed no real change in gas mileage since my first oil change. It’s been pretty consistent at 55-59. I have about the most consistent altitude, temp, and driving conditions of anyone in here so I think it’s pretty representative of what can be normally expected after the first oil change. Now I have noticed in prior cars that mileage sees a minor bump up around the 30-50k mark. I’m curious to see if this car does the same.
 
#31 ·
Lower temps cool the engine a lot faster so it needs to start up more to maintain optimal temperature even without heater usage. Battery also needs to be at optimal temp for charging/discharging which can affect how much regen and battery usage is possible.

@Carfreak09 Maybe it has to do with tire tread wear? As you get less tread life you get less rolling resistance. @Moviemike I notice you have 66.6 average MPG. :devil:
 
#32 ·
Also a note on tire wear, as your tread wears, your odometer becomes less accurate at determining fuel mileage. The balder your tires are (smaller circumference) the faster your wheel spins to cover the same distance. This is only a small percentage, but technically as tires wear, your speedometer (and odometer) "think" the car is moving faster/farther than it does with a brand new tire.

Car tires have pretty short treads compared to truck tires, so the difference is almost negligible but it does make a difference. (I decided to calculate this for a stock LX/EX wheel tire/combo). The numbers I gathered were from data sheets, and not measured in with actual tires.

A new tire (215/55r16) diameter is 25.31" and every 1/32 of wear = 0.03125". Let's say you are 6/32" worn down, that's 0.1875" diameter loss. that sounds negligible until you figure out the circumference difference.

New tire. 25.31" diameter, which is 79.4734"
Worn tire 25.31"- .1875= 25.1225" diameter, which is 78.8847" circumference.

Calculated out for revolutions per mile=
New tire (63,360/ 79.4734=) 797.25 revs/mile
Worn tire (63,360/ 78.8847=) 803.2 revs/mile

That's a .0075% increase. (As mentioned, on passenger car tires the change is minuscule). Also note that this difference is not linear, so larger diameters are affected more.

And now I've dived into a rabbit hole about rolling resistance again, I'll not drag you guys down that hole with me too :D. A More refined article talking about both diameter and rolling resistance of New-to-Worn tires.
 
#37 ·
My mpg average for my last 4 fill ups are: December = 52.9, February = 50.9, April = 53.9 and June = 51.5 this is according to the Fuely App. Does this sound about right? I live in Morristown, TN fwiw.

This seems low to me, 90% of my driving is city. I'm a disable veteran so I don't get out much as you can see from my mpg average. This averages out to a combined 52.2 mpg per fill up for the last 4 fill ups which is what Honda claims. Most of my city driving is short trips of 8 to 10 miles per round trip. I drive very conservatively, don't speed, drive in Econ mode and don't stomp the gas pedal. I have taken 82 mile round trips to the VA hospital which is 80% highway and have gotten up to 63.9 mpg for those trips but the usual average is closer to 58 mpg. I've come to realize you need to put a lot of miles on the car per trip to get the best gas mileage, why is that, I'm driving a hybrid and the car seems to stay on EV? The speed limit out in the suburbs are 40 - 45 mph. As the weather warms up I'm hoping for better mpg. For what it's worth I get better mileage driving on the state highway at the posted speed limit of 55 mph. I've never gotten the 55 mpg city that Honda claims. I've had my Insight EX for almost a year and I've only driven 2,850 miles.
 
#40 ·
My mpg average for my last 4 fill ups are: December = 52.9, February = 50.9, April = 53.9 and June = 51.5 this is according to the Fuely App. Does this sound about right? I live in Morristown, TN fwiw.
[...]
I've come to realize you need to put a lot of miles on the car per trip to get the best gas mileage, why is that, I'm driving a hybrid and the car seems to stay on EV? The speed limit out in the suburbs are 40 - 45 mph. As the weather warms up I'm hoping for better mpg.
Your results seem about right for the driving conditions (mostly short trips, city driving) and weather history for your area. Cold weather and winter blend gas seem to cause a -15% hit to fuel economy.
  • 01-Oct to 30-Dec = 52.86 MPG @ 50.4 F avg temp (63.2 F max to 39.9 F min)
  • 31-Dec to 20-Feb = 50.87 MPG @ 44.2 F avg temp (53.9 F max to 44.2 F min)
  • 21-Feb to 02-Apr = 53.89 MPG @ 52.0 F avg temp (62.3 F max to 52.0 F min)
  • 03-Apr to 17-Jun = 51.53 MPG @ 63.2 F avg temp (75.1 F max to 63.2 F min)
Your 'best' mpg results were at average temperatures >50 F, and your worst result was in colder temps, and your 52.2 mpg average fuel efficiency result-to-date is in the top 1/3 of ~200 Gen3 Insights reported on Fuelly.

5420

Your latest result (51.53 MPG) seems a little low given the warm average temperatures, but perhaps it will improve now that temps will stay warm and you've refueled recently with summer blend. I drive similar distance range (8-10 miles) for my daily drive at ~45 mph and this year have gotten 52 mpg in cold (<50 F) weather, and 59 mpg in warmer (>50 F) weather.

As you mentioned, it sounds counterintuitive, but driving 'a little bit further' than your normal short trip can increase mpg because there's more chance EV mode kicks in to offset the early part of the drive where the ICE runs a fixed amount of time regardless of drive length. I've gotta admit I sometimes drive an extra loop of 2-3 blocks before parking just to see my mpg bump up to ~55 mpg versus 52 mpg before parking my car.
 
#42 ·
@Wifey'sInsight shared some perspective on this in post #23 above. There are technical/mechanical reasons fuel efficiency could increase after oil change, but the data is anecdotal (versus research-lab quality).

Personally, I'm seeing results that are within the same range as pre-oil change. And unless accumulates enough miles within a season (10k miles in 3 months?) it's hard to decouple from the oil change (and outdoor temperature effects) any helping effects from my 'better' hybrid driving style as I drive/learn the car more.
 
#39 ·
I was able to get through the entire winter in western New Jersey (hill country) at above 60 MPG. I don't have much highway driving, so that's a major factor. Most of my driving was >=50 mile trips. Short trips kill MPG in winter due to the required ICE warm-up and cabin heat usage. Summer should indeed show better gas mileage. The Insight loves warmer temps.
 
#43 ·
Hey forum, When I first purchased my insight in June, it was avg 51 MPG as shown on the dash. My individual trips could range from mid 40's to 60's.

Currently I cannot get my avg above 47MPH and the highest trip avg is around 54

I try putting in EV when ever I can or at least in Econ. I do use Sport occasionally so I expect some decrease for that. Any suggestions? Or is 47 the best I can expect AVG?

Thanks...
 
#46 ·
Hey forum, When I first purchased my insight in June, it was avg 51 MPG as shown on the dash. My individual trips could range from mid 40's to 60's.

Currently I cannot get my avg above 47MPH and the highest trip avg is around 54

I try putting in EV when ever I can or at least in Econ. I do use Sport occasionally so I expect some decrease for that. Any suggestions? Or is 47 the best I can expect AVG?
How many miles have you driven so far? Has your split of city/highway driving or route (terrain) changed at all? Is your driving style more aggressive now that you're more familiar with the car? Have your temperature conditions changed at all (i.e. running more A/C)?

Econ mode is the most conservative throttle position (and cabin temperature management). Sport mode is a killer on fuel economy because the throttle response becomes feather-light, triggers the ICE to run more, and prioritizes keeping the HV battery charged up. As one example, @hasarard saw significant (-13%) MPG decrease just from running 'Normal' mode versus 'Econ' mode on same daily route.

This Drive Modes thread also offers observations / suggestions on matching mode to driving conditions (e.g. acceleration, speed, terrain). I mostly drive in Econ mode, but engage Sport mode 1 mile before a hill in my daily commute, to build up HV battery charge and help fuel economy. Others find Normal mode yields best result for their regular routes. Finding the best combination of mode to route could help optimize your MPG.
 
#45 ·
I think a lot will have to with your commute and driving style. The Insight is best on medium length commutes with relatively lower speeds. I'm still on my first tank since purchase, driven 650 kms (400 miles) and my readout is showing 4.1L/100km (57 mpg). Keep in mind its all relative as you continue to use the vehicle. I have had some trips where I've been as low as 2.8L/100km (84 mpg) and my 18 km (11 miles) round trip work commute averages 3.6-3.8L/100km (61-65 mpg). I drive exclusively in Econ and EV from every stop as the battery allows.
 
#47 ·
My fuel economy has been dropping(averaging 48mpg/tank) since April compared to where I'm at right now last year. Less traffic means more people speeding so I have been going above 70mph. Also doing more short trips with AC on than long trips. I went back to driving less aggressively and not going faster than 70mph the past few days.

Here's a 10 mile trip I did last night, 70F temps, no AC, and driving 65-70mph. I did a few more similar trips today and I got 52-55mpg.
5548
 
#49 ·
My fuel economy has been dropping(averaging 48mpg/tank) since April compared to where I'm at right now last year. Less traffic means more people speeding so I have been going above 70mph. Also doing more short trips with AC on than long trips. I went back to driving less aggressively and not going faster than 70mph the past few days.

Here's a 10 mile trip I did last night, 70F temps, no AC, and driving 65-70mph. I did a few more similar trips today and I got 52-55mpg.
View attachment 5548
Which mode is that on your screen?
 
#48 ·
Without my long work commute, my mileage has dropped from high 60s/low 70s down to high 50s. An even bigger number-killer is the fact I leave the car on and run the A/C during my son's 2-hr soccer practice since the weather in NJ has been oppressive lately. I'm not complaining since there is more highway in my routine, and I am still above EPA numbers.
 
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#54 ·
I've had the same challenge !!

What has worked for me has been to moderate my rate of acceleration. Also I do a lot to use engine-off EV mode (cash-in stored energy in the battery) to provide that acceleration.

With this car vs prior cars I continue to cruise at speed limit or + 5 rmph., rarely slow for curves, maneuver around slower vehicles, and make good use of the dictum that bodies in motion tend to stay in motion.
 
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