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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The Trump administration revoked California's right to set its own emissions standards, and a coalition of states (23 total) have filed lawsuit against the NHTSA which issued the rule revoking California's authority.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-09-17/trump-revokes-california-environmental-authority-auto-deal
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-09-20/california-sues-trump-car-emissions-authority


"California’s special authority to go further than the federal government [...] dates back to the 1960s, when Los Angeles was enveloped in a thick layer of smog that state officials came to see as a public health crisis. [...] Congress decided that the EPA would set vehicle pollution standards for the nation. But it carved out an exception for California, saying that the EPA would be required to grant the state a waiver to set its own rules, provided they were at least as stringent as the federal ones. Other states could choose to follow either California’s regulations or those set by the EPA. [...]If California’s waiver is revoked and the current Obama-era standards remain in place, automakers could actually be forced to lower emissions levels more than they had agreed to as part of their pact with California."

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Several of us in 'select states' (CA, CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA) have benefitted from the halo of California's higher emissions standard, including the Extended Emissions Warranty. - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/11380-post56.html

I assume those of us in the 'select states' are grandfathered into this continued coverage because it existed when we purchased, but it makes me wonder whether this extended warranty benefit will continue in future, if California no longer can set a higher standard for other states to follow...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/25/ford-bmw-honda-and-volkswagen-agree-to-california-emissions-rules.html

Ford, BMW, Honda, and Volkswagen signed a voluntary agreement with California. So at least we know Honda will continue to honor the extended emissions warranty. Says a lot that Toyota isn't on this list. :wink:
The agreement between California and BMW / Honda / VW / Ford was announced in July, but as of early September, it's under federal investigation for possible violation of anti-trust and collusion laws: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bmw-ford-honda-volkswagen-doj-investigation-california/
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Interesting read. Honestly, it's "expensive" to do business in California... so I can see how manufacturers benefit if all states have the same standards. This would reduce the variations of cars they produce, plus get them off the hook for maintaining different warranty standards in "California Emissions States" (13 total). Doubt the cost savings from this would get passed to consumer, so any profit from this would directly benefit the manufacturer's profit.
 

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Interesting read. Honestly, it's "expensive" to do business in California... so I can see how manufacturers benefit if all states have the same standards. This would reduce the variations of cars they produce, plus get them off the hook for maintaining different warranty standards in "California Emissions States" (13 total). Doubt the cost savings from this would get passed to consumer, so any profit from this would directly benefit the manufacturer's profit.
Toyota is dealing with damage control right now on social media(Just look at their twitter feed :p). This could mean a boost in Insight, Accord Hybrid, and CRV Hybrid sales for Honda. :D

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/gm-toyota-fiat-chrysler-back-trump-california-emissions-challenge-n1073211?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
^It's BMW, Ford, VW, Honda vs GM, Toyota, FIAT Chrysler, Mazda, Nissan, KIA, Hyundai and Subaru right now.

:surprise:
 

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Andrew28, also interesting to note, that of the bottom 5 manufacturers for fuel economy, 4 of them comprise the "Truck" Brands. Interestingly enough, the brands that showed the most gain in mpg, except for Toyota have hybrid options, and even focused efforts on their ICE lineup for fuel economy as well.

I am going out on a limb here, but I wonder if these charts exempt Plug ins and EV only vehicles.
 

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Andrew28, also interesting to note, that of the bottom 5 manufacturers for fuel economy, 4 of them comprise the "Truck" Brands. Interestingly enough, the brands that showed the most gain in mpg, except for Toyota have hybrid options, and even focused efforts on their ICE lineup for fuel economy as well.

I am going out on a limb here, but I wonder if these charts exempt Plug ins and EV only vehicles.
The charts probably do exclude PHEVs and EVs. I don't think Toyota use turbo engines so that affects their overall fleet fuel economy numbers, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
All Lexus cars are turbocharged, but Toyota is trying to maximize the efficiency of naturally aspirated engines... which is part of why their mpg results are starting to lag other brands. I kind of like that Toyota is staying old-school, focused on long-term reliability rather than short-term gains.
 

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All Lexus cars are turbocharged, but Toyota is trying to maximize the efficiency of naturally aspirated engines... which is part of why their mpg results are starting to lag other brands. I kind of like that Toyota is staying old-school, focused on long-term reliability rather than short-term gains.
Mazda does a lot of naturally aspirated efficiency stuff, although they've always been known to do wacky stuff, especially with their sky active engines.

Toyota's issue is that it sells 2 to 1 basically of trucks to car. Rav4 leading all models sold with nearly 35k units.

Toyota sold 170k vehicles in September, 23k were hybrid. RAV4 Hybrid = nearly 10k of those sales as well. *I believe these were part of the 35k Rav4's sold in September 2019*
 

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All Lexus cars are turbocharged, but Toyota is trying to maximize the efficiency of naturally aspirated engines... which is part of why their mpg results are starting to lag other brands. I kind of like that Toyota is staying old-school, focused on long-term reliability rather than short-term gains.
I have family looking at the new CRV right now guess they should really wait for the Hybrid version. :plain:
 

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I want at least 5 more years to see how Honda's turbo charged engines function/last. It's not been impressive so far, with the CR-V oil dilution issues.
Maybe Honda rushed the turbos out because it was a stop gap measure(to increase performance & MPGs) until they roll out the hybrids and EVs? The turbos will probably get phased out as the next gen cars arrive.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/25/ford-bmw-honda-and-volkswagen-agree-to-california-emissions-rules.html

Ford, BMW, Honda, and Volkswagen signed a voluntary agreement with California. So at least we know Honda will continue to honor the extended emissions warranty. Says a lot that Toyota isn't on this list. :wink:
In its own form of retaliation, the California government will no longer buy from automakers who backed Trump's stand on eliminating California's stricter emissions requirements. These manufacturers include GM, Toyota, Fiat, Chrysler. Of course, more people buy cars in California than just the government... but sets a tone for future. Maybe the other ~15 states (NJ, CT, WA, VT, NY, ME, RI, MA, OR, PA, MD, DC, DE, CO) that adopted California's emissions standard will follow suit.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-california/california-to-stop-buying-gm-toyota-and-fiat-chrysler-vehicles-over-emissions-fight-idUSKBN1XS2B2
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Several of us in 'select states' (CA, CT, DE, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, PA, RI, VT, WA) have benefitted from the halo of California's higher emissions standard, including the Extended Emissions Warranty. - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/11380-post56.html
I just saw that COLORADO is the latest to add itself to the list of states that follow California's stricter emissions standard. It became law in 2018, but only applies to model year 2022 forward. I assume this means Colorado Insight buyers are still under the 'standard' emissions warranty rather than the 'extended' emissions warranty.

I also previously missed including DC among the included states . Total count for extended emissions states is now 15...

https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/Air/MobileSources/Pages/states.aspx
 

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I guess I'm jaded by "California Emissions" because we end up with some of their cars in NY, and if it's a "California Emissions Vehicle" things like catalytic converters legally have to be replaced with the "California Emissions" required part.

Cracked a flex pipe on a California emissions Dodge Neon, and the only California Emissions part was 4 times the cost. The part was only available as a complete unit (header, flex pipe, catalytic converter). There was only one available in the whole country, and took 3 weeks just to track down, another week to ship. Just an example on one of the negative effects of this dual standard system.

I get there are benefits, but if the whole country adopted one standard, then tracking down parts wouldn't be as hard, as all OEM parts would be compliant with the law. So I guess it's a catch 22 thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I gotta say... I'm not in support of either side and have no other preference/opinion on it... but just happy to benefit from the 'free' extended hybrid warranty clause by being part of the included states.
 
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