Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Throughout the forums, I have seen posts about this - and I want to point out that this is NOT an Insight specific issue. You can go to other sites and find complaints of other Honda models doing this as well. I am hoping that they will come out with a fix one day in the future. It happened to me today just cruising along the interstate at 70mph, and yesterday during a storm. There was NOTHING in the way, no bridges etc.. It is scary and does need to be fixed - in both cases my car did brake and I had to floor it for it not to slow down significantly..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
Throughout the forums, I have seen posts about this - and I want to point out that this is NOT an Insight specific issue. You can go to other sites and find complaints of other Honda models doing this as well. I am hoping that they will come out with a fix one day in the future. It happened to me today just cruising along the interstate at 70mph, and yesterday during a storm. There was NOTHING in the way, no bridges etc.. It is scary and does need to be fixed - in both cases my car did brake and I had to floor it for it not to slow down significantly..
To clarify - are you referring to CMBS engaging for no apparent reason, rather than responding to preceding post re: CMBS being off...? I think you mean the CMBS false alarm, but wanted to confirm.

Maybe I drive too slow (back roads) or my route is clear (few trees or shadows), but knock on wood... I've yet to experience a false CMBS braking issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
I wish there was a way to data-log this to see if it's the camera or radar system that seems to trigger these events. Especially if we could geo-tag these events and look for environmental factors that may be interfering with the systems.

For those that have seen shadows (or overhead bridges trigger it), it would allow us to know if the Radar needed to be calibrated, or the camera.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
I wouldn't be surprised if the car did data record system brake events anyway. I'll bet somewhere in the chips these responses are being logged for future viewing in case of accident. I have my doubts if any fixes for this problem will ever be rolled out voluntarily unless it's just an upgrade to newer model cars or people start dying in accidents and there is a lawsuit. Since Honda doesn't even make the system I figure an update wouldn't be in the simple software update system of the main screen, but a type of update that either means chip (hardware) replacement or dealer level computer access for flashing data. Either way, unless it becomes litigiously problematic for Honda, and if it's the kind of update I list above, it won't be openly offered or free unless a specific incident on the individual car is identified and the fix involves the above or the replacement of a system component identified by the dealer as a solution to a warranty failure. Sorry to be such a downer but after my last run in with Honda concerning safety system issues, and with multiple video evidence, they kindly (actually they were so sweet it raised my blood sugar) refused to even do a proper diagnostics on the system. 😫
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Bosch is the manufacturer, as others have stated. The article @andrew28 previously shared (from the WSJ) on the outsourcing of Honda Sensing is pretty enlightening:
https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/258-honda-insight-features-equipment/548-hondas-cruise-control-philosophy.html

Here's a quote from Bosch's PDF on the camera..
"TASK
The multi purpose camera (MPC2) offers manufacturers a flexible,
monocular camera platform for driver assistance systems. All
MPC2 variants are based on a re-programmable image processing
consisting of a powerful FPGA semiconductor with built-in
microprocessor. High performance image processing algorithms
run in parallel on dedicated hardware structures. Still, project-relevant
adaptations and optimizations can be done."

Correct me if I am wrong - I am reading this and to my eyes it looks like the Field Programmable Gate Array on board can be programmed according to what the manufacturer wants out of it. There is room here for Honda to refine their logic I am certain. I do think eventually - someone somewhere will be involved in an accident from a false CMB event.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
331 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
To clarify - are you referring to CMBS engaging for no apparent reason, rather than responding to preceding post re: CMBS being off...? I think you mean the CMBS false alarm, but wanted to confirm.

Maybe I drive too slow (back roads) or my route is clear (few trees or shadows), but knock on wood... I've yet to experience a false CMBS braking issue.
Oh sorry, yes ghost braking as my other half likes to call it. I was pretty impressed with it today though as a bike rider on the side of the road decided to wander into my lane for no apparent reason. As soon as I was about to hit the brakes the system did it for me. Pretty neat - even if it is a little scatterbrained..
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong - I am reading this and to my eyes it looks like the Field Programmable Gate Array on board can be programmed according to what the manufacturer wants out of it. There is room here for Honda to refine their logic I am certain. I do think eventually - someone somewhere will be involved in an accident from a false CMB event.
That's how I previously read/interpreted as well. The overall platform seems 'standard' and automakers choose sensor sensitivity and other parameters to get the performance and features they want for their brand. I'm sure there are reasons Honda thinks their current logic choices are the best trade-off for performance. But I also think fundamental equipment limitations (e.g. shadows picked up by camera) limit how "good" any logic programming can ever get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
That's how I previously read/interpreted as well. The overall platform seems 'standard' and automakers choose sensor sensitivity and other parameters to get the performance and features they want for their brand. I'm sure there are reasons Honda thinks their current logic choices are the best trade-off for performance. But I also think fundamental equipment limitations (e.g. shadows picked up by camera) limit how "good" any logic programming can ever get.
The crazy thought is how low the failure percentage probably is. These camera systems will make millions of readings over their lifetime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mgldan

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
The crazy thought is how low the failure percentage probably is. These camera systems will make millions of readings over their lifetime.
So true! There are many times Honda Sensing is 'successful' and not reported. But it's the failures that end up catching our attention and complaints... #HalfFullorHalfEmpty
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
I wouldn't be surprised if the car did data record system brake events anyway. I'll bet somewhere in the chips these responses are being logged for future viewing in case of accident. I have my doubts if any fixes for this problem will ever be rolled out voluntarily unless it's just an upgrade to newer model cars or people start dying in accidents and there is a lawsuit. Since Honda doesn't even make the system I figure an update wouldn't be in the simple software update system of the main screen, but a type of update that either means chip (hardware) replacement or dealer level computer access for flashing data. Either way, unless it becomes litigiously problematic for Honda, and if it's the kind of update I list above, it won't be openly offered or free unless a specific incident on the individual car is identified and the fix involves the above or the replacement of a system component identified by the dealer as a solution to a warranty failure. Sorry to be such a downer but after my last run in with Honda concerning safety system issues, and with multiple video evidence, they kindly (actually they were so sweet it raised my blood sugar) refused to even do a proper diagnostics on the system. 😫
Reporting Safety Defects

In the U.S. If you believe that your vehicle has a defect which could cause a crash or could cause injury or death, you should immediately inform the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in addition to notifying American Honda Motor Co., Inc. If NHTSA receives similar complaints, it may open an investigation, and if it finds that a safety defect exists in a group of vehicles, it may order a recall and remedy campaign. However, NHTSA cannot become involved in individual problems between you, your dealer, or American Honda Motor Co., Inc. To contact NHTSA, you may call the Vehicle Safety Hotline toll-free at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); go to safercar.gov , or write to: Administrator, NHTSA,1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE., Washington, DC 20590. You can also obtain other information about motor vehicle safety from safercar.gov
You should report it to the NHTSA if you believe your car has a safety defect as instructed in the Owner's Guide by Honda above.

So is there a consensus about which sensitivity setting reduces the chance of a false alert/action?

By the way, I realize that above I meant the RDM (road departure mitigation system), and I'm pretty sure that it was OFF on my car, and no one turned it off. Does it have the same false alert/actions as CMBS?
I changed mine to "short" from "normal" a few months ago and haven't experience another false positive. I would advise cleaning your windshield and dashboard area. Fog, glare, and reflections can affect how the camera mounted above the windshield works according to the owner's guide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
Correct me if I am wrong - I am reading this and to my eyes it looks like the Field Programmable Gate Array on board can be programmed according to what the manufacturer wants out of it. There is room here for Honda to refine their logic I am certain. I do think eventually - someone somewhere will be involved in an accident from a false CMB event.
That's how I previously read/interpreted as well. The overall platform seems 'standard' and automakers choose sensor sensitivity and other parameters to get the performance and features they want for their brand. I'm sure there are reasons Honda thinks their current logic choices are the best trade-off for performance. But I also think fundamental equipment limitations (e.g. shadows picked up by camera) limit how "good" any logic programming can ever get.
While I can agree with you on part on this insightfully, I must point out, like I always do🙄, that my Ford fusion energi does not suffer from these problems and is also a Bosch system. There are limitations, but I wonder how much of it is due to poor programming versus cheaper equipment. It really is a difference between night and day between these two cars as far as odd safety system responses are concerned. Sometimes I wish I never got the Ford then I would never notice how significant the insight's error proneness really is. Others on this forum have even said the odd braking problem has been identified in other Honda vehicles as well. Guess I should change my icon to a dead horse being beaten. 🤪
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
The crazy thought is how low the failure percentage probably is. These camera systems will make millions of readings over their lifetime.
So true! There are many times Honda Sensing is 'successful' and not reported. But it's the failures that end up catching our attention and complaints... #HalfFullorHalfEmpty
For all my whining I will definitely agree that the system's advantages and successes outweigh the errors and mistakes. It just irks me to know that it probably can be better because I've used a Bosch system without all these weird errors. I'm sorry guys and gals. I'm still smarting a little over Honda's (seemingly) lack of real concern over this, and my case in particular. Love the freaking lane centering to death though! 😄🤗
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
642 Posts
I wouldn't be surprised if the car did data record system brake events anyway. I'll bet somewhere in the chips these responses are being logged for future viewing in case of accident. I have my doubts if any fixes for this problem will ever be rolled out voluntarily unless it's just an upgrade to newer model cars or people start dying in accidents and there is a lawsuit. Since Honda doesn't even make the system I figure an update wouldn't be in the simple software update system of the main screen, but a type of update that either means chip (hardware) replacement or dealer level computer access for flashing data. Either way, unless it becomes litigiously problematic for Honda, and if it's the kind of update I list above, it won't be openly offered or free unless a specific incident on the individual car is identified and the fix involves the above or the replacement of a system component identified by the dealer as a solution to a warranty failure. Sorry to be such a downer but after my last run in with Honda concerning safety system issues, and with multiple video evidence, they kindly (actually they were so sweet it raised my blood sugar) refused to even do a proper diagnostics on the system. 😫
Reporting Safety Defects

In the U.S. If you believe that your vehicle has a defect which could cause a crash or could cause injury or death, you should immediately inform the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in addition to notifying American Honda Motor Co., Inc. If NHTSA receives similar complaints, it may open an investigation, and if it finds that a safety defect exists in a group of vehicles, it may order a recall and remedy campaign. However, NHTSA cannot become involved in individual problems between you, your dealer, or American Honda Motor Co., Inc. To contact NHTSA, you may call the Vehicle Safety Hotline toll-free at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY: 1-800-424-9153); go to safercar.gov , or write to: Administrator, NHTSA,1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE., Washington, DC 20590. You can also obtain other information about motor vehicle safety from safercar.gov
You should report it to the NHTSA if you believe your car has a safety defect as instructed in the Owner's Guide by Honda above.

So is there a consensus about which sensitivity setting reduces the chance of a false alert/action?

By the way, I realize that above I meant the RDM (road departure mitigation system), and I'm pretty sure that it was OFF on my car, and no one turned it off. Does it have the same false alert/actions as CMBS?
I changed mine to "short" from "normal" a few months ago and haven't experience another false positive. I would advise cleaning your windshield and dashboard area. Fog, glare, and reflections can affect how the camera mounted above the windshield works according to the owner's guide.
I might actually do this just to have it on record. While I loathe getting the guvment involved in anything, I do think it's important that this significant flaw be reported as a concern. I'm going to wait for my stereo to be set up properly so I can do more driving and test out this particular problem more precisely. I also want to document more failures on camera. Im such a wet blanket! 😫😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
For all my whining I will definitely agree that the system's advantages and successes outweigh the errors and mistakes. It just irks me to know that it probably can be better because I've used a Bosch system without all these weird errors. I'm sorry guys and gals. I'm still smarting a little over Honda's (seemingly) lack of real concern over this, and my case in particular. Love the freaking lane centering to death though! 😄🤗
Don't ever mistake speaking up as whining. No progress is ever made if we all just accept things the way that they are. Ever car company has their short-comings, and unless enough people speak up about things, the Companies will never try to fix anything.

In todays day and age, more and more systems are software upgradeable compared to the cars from even 10-15 years ago. Unfortunately most car manufacturers simply fail at even trying to address concerns with software updates.

Back to the point, why isn't some Honda engineer asking for reports of FALSE sensor readings, location/ time of day, etc... then working on finding the pattern and analyzing the data to push an update. Seems like the easiest way to please your Loyal customers as a car company. actually address owners concerns by trying to fix them via software. I know for me, if a brand was out there actually fixing software issues, I'd immediately be looking to them for my next car and future purchases.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top