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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, we picked up our Insight EX 4/27/19 and have driven it approximately 625 miles. Today when we started it, the dash lit up like a Christmas tree with warnings. Basically everything that was camera dependent failed. LKA, CMBS, RDM. My first thought was that maybe a petal or pollen was obstructing the view for the camera. Put the car in reverse, no back up camera. Put the left turn signal on to pull out onto the street, no turn signal indicator, no noise. Pulled up the next intersection, put the right turn signal on, no noise, no indicators and no camera. Drove the 7 miles to drop my significant other off at her job. Put on the 4 ways, no indicator, no sound. Got out and checked the camera, and radar module, everything appeared fine and free of obstruction. Stopped by the dealership on my way into work to set up an appointment. Got back into the car (off for a few minutes). Car started up fine, everything working again.

I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced anything like this. It's one thing when CarPlay acts up (volume won't go past 11, have to disconnect and reconnect and then it works fine). Dealership said that there were no outstanding recalls on our Insight, so I assume that the backup camera one was done before sale, although I will confirm when I have more time on Friday and it's at the dealership.
 

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Ok, we picked up our Insight EX 4/27/19 and have driven it approximately 625 miles. Today when we started it, the dash lit up like a Christmas tree with warnings. Basically everything that was camera dependent failed. LKA, CMBS, RDM. My first thought was that maybe a petal or pollen was obstructing the view for the camera. Put the car in reverse, no back up camera. Put the left turn signal on to pull out onto the street, no turn signal indicator, no noise. Pulled up the next intersection, put the right turn signal on, no noise, no indicators and no camera. Drove the 7 miles to drop my significant other off at her job. Put on the 4 ways, no indicator, no sound. Got out and checked the camera, and radar module, everything appeared fine and free of obstruction. Stopped by the dealership on my way into work to set up an appointment. Got back into the car (off for a few minutes). Car started up fine, everything working again.

I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced anything like this. It's one thing when CarPlay acts up (volume won't go past 11, have to disconnect and reconnect and then it works fine). Dealership said that there were no outstanding recalls on our Insight, so I assume that the backup camera one was done before sale, although I will confirm when I have more time on Friday and it's at the dealership.
Did all other indicators/displays work during the time when the camera-dependent items failed? There have been reports of Frozen LCD screen, but that doesn't quite sound like your issue. The cameras are separate for front, side, and rear - so it seems very unusual they'd fail concurrently.

There's a complaint dated 8/21/18 that sounds similar, listed on the NHTSA site (but no resolution indicated) stating: "THERE WAS AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM WHICH PREVENTED USE OF TURN SIGNALS, LIGHTS AND OTHER SYSTEMS. THIS PERSISTED FOR THE FOUR MILE DRIVE HOME. AFTER PARKING THE CAR, UNLOADING GROCERIES (USING MANUAL TRUNK UNLOCK) THEN RETURNING LATER, ALL SYSTEMS WERE WORKING AGAIN."

Net, it sounds like this 'systemwide failure' issue has been reported for at least one other car/driver, though not yet on this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Did all other indicators/displays work during the time when the camera-dependent items failed? There have been reports of Frozen LCD screen, but that doesn't quite sound like your issue. The cameras are separate for front, side, and rear - so it seems very unusual they'd fail concurrently.

There's a complaint dated 8/21/18 that sounds similar, listed on the NHTSA site (but no resolution indicated) stating: "THERE WAS AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM WHICH PREVENTED USE OF TURN SIGNALS, LIGHTS AND OTHER SYSTEMS. THIS PERSISTED FOR THE FOUR MILE DRIVE HOME. AFTER PARKING THE CAR, UNLOADING GROCERIES (USING MANUAL TRUNK UNLOCK) THEN RETURNING LATER, ALL SYSTEMS WERE WORKING AGAIN."

Net, it sounds like this 'systemwide failure' issue has been reported for at least one other car/driver, though not yet on this forum.
Cruise control "normal and acc" still appeared green on the dash. Didn't get a chance to use those.

When put in reverse, the screen did not change at all, still showed media source, and was functional. Tune, volume change worked. Touchscreen worked, went to power flow with no problem.

When the lane change camera was turned on by pressing the button, it showed a black screen. When the turn signal was used, no screen change.

On my drive in to her work, the construction didn't cause lane keep assist or another other warnings as it usually does.

The regenerative braking paddles operated normally. The dash cluster worked normally, the speedometer worked normally. Headlights, windshield wipers worked normally, and the headlight indicator in the cluster worked normally.

All of the other safety features showed up as orange icons, including the brake system warning light.

All of the exterior lighting worked, including the turn signals, just no noise or dash instrument related to the turn signals and four-way hazards. Key fob worked, door locks worked. The parking brake and gear selector worked. The car shut down and turned back on the first time to welcome me to the same set of warnings. It wasn't until I had shut the car down for a few minutes that it seemed to reset.
 

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I suspect it to be one of two things. Either software, or a short. Unfortunately I haven't accessed or even know if I can; the schematics to see where and how all of these systems tie together. There is no reason for the camera in the windshield to have caused issues with the other two cameras. I do know that the rear and passenger camera are all tied into the infotainment system, but I don't know why the front camera would be.

Other than the loss of the driver aids, and dash indications, everything else seemed to be functioning properly. It drove, steered and stopped like it does on every other trip.
 

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I suspect it to be one of two things. Either software, or a short. Unfortunately I haven't accessed or even know if I can; the schematics to see where and how all of these systems tie together. There is no reason for the camera in the windshield to have caused issues with the other two cameras. I do know that the rear and passenger camera are all tied into the infotainment system, but I don't know why the front camera would be.

@INSIGHT_OUTTASIGHT posted this diagram in the "Audio Wiring Harness" thread, which may help if you want to check physical connections for the infotainment system. LaneWatch and Rearview camera connections are listed, and no obvious mention of the the front sensor camera, as expected.
 

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Ok, we picked up our Insight EX 4/27/19 and have driven it approximately 625 miles. Today when we started it, the dash lit up like a Christmas tree with warnings. Basically everything that was camera dependent failed. LKA, CMBS, RDM. My first thought was that maybe a petal or pollen was obstructing the view for the camera. Put the car in reverse, no back up camera. Put the left turn signal on to pull out onto the street, no turn signal indicator, no noise. Pulled up the next intersection, put the right turn signal on, no noise, no indicators and no camera. Drove the 7 miles to drop my significant other off at her job. Put on the 4 ways, no indicator, no sound. Got out and checked the camera, and radar module, everything appeared fine and free of obstruction. Stopped by the dealership on my way into work to set up an appointment. Got back into the car (off for a few minutes). Car started up fine, everything working again.

I'm just curious if anyone else has experienced anything like this. It's one thing when CarPlay acts up (volume won't go past 11, have to disconnect and reconnect and then it works fine). Dealership said that there were no outstanding recalls on our Insight, so I assume that the backup camera one was done before sale, although I will confirm when I have more time on Friday and it's at the dealership.
I’ve heard of this exact thing happening to a Hyundai Sonata. The rear camera failed and because newer cars are Can-bus and interconnected, one failure causes a cascade event leading to all other systems throwing up warnings. Replacing the faulty camera fixed the issue. You could very well have a wonky camera or a malfunctioning body control module. If it happens again, I’d suggest driving it straight to the dealer so they can verify and trouble shoot.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I’ve heard of this exact thing happening to a Hyundai Sonata. The rear camera failed and because newer cars are Can-bus and interconnected, one failure causes a cascade event leading to all other systems throwing up warnings. Replacing the faulty camera fixed the issue. You could very well have a wonky camera or a malfunctioning body control module. If it happens again, I’d suggest driving it straight to the dealer so they can verify and trouble shoot.
It's going in on Friday to see if they can find anything and if any codes posted. I'm coming from a Colorado, so I know all about can-bus screwing with everything.
 

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Just to post back an update. The car passed every test, and they noted all bcm codes that were set, on our vehicle file. If it happens again they will begin looking at replacing the bcm. The car had already received the update for the infotainment system for the recall. So far it has only happened one time, and because it isn't reproducible, it's a wait and see type of issue for now.
 

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Just to post back an update. The car passed every test, and they noted all bcm codes that were set, on our vehicle file. If it happens again they will begin looking at replacing the bcm. The car had already received the update for the infotainment system for the recall. So far it has only happened one time, and because it isn't reproducible, it's a wait and see type of issue for now.
BCM is a new term for me, so I thought I'd google and ask the forum if there are other/better descriptions:

"In automotive electronics, body control module (BCM) is a generic term for an electronic control unit (ECU) responsible for monitoring and controlling various electronic accessories in a vehicle's body. Typically in a car the BCM controls the power windows, power mirrors, air conditioning, immobilizer system, central locking, etc. The BCM communicates with other on-board computers via the car's vehicle bus, and its main application is controlling load drivers – actuating relays that in turn perform actions in the vehicle."

Is this what the dealer described as the relationship to BCM and issues you saw?
 

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BCM is a new term for me, so I thought I'd google and ask the forum if there are other/better descriptions:

"In automotive electronics, body control module (BCM) is a generic term for an electronic control unit (ECU) responsible for monitoring and controlling various electronic accessories in a vehicle's body. Typically in a car the BCM controls the power windows, power mirrors, air conditioning, immobilizer system, central locking, etc. The BCM communicates with other on-board computers via the car's vehicle bus, and its main application is controlling load drivers – actuating relays that in turn perform actions in the vehicle."

Is this what the dealer described as the relationship to BCM and issues you saw?
In can-bus systems, the BCM is the brain. The can-bus is like a nervous system. If there is an issue with one of the nerves, the brain tries to correct it. If there is an issue with multiple areas, sometimes the brain freaks out and doesn't know how to handle all of the issues. The dealership didn't go into detail with me as they understand that I'm not an average consumer. My father teaches automotive, and I have an automotive field degree. They often find that I explain it in further detail than they could.

If it only happens that one time that it did, it could have been a software glitch, a program stuck in open loop, or a value that couldn't be solved for. If it happens multiple times, then further analysis can be made.

It made logical sense to me that there was an issue on the can-bus, and that potentially the issue could be the bcm itself. If the issue repeats, any deviations of what systems work and don't work, and any differences in codes set will help to narrow down the potential issue(s).

Funny story, when I was in college, we had a 1998 Plymouth voyager that kept coming back for serious issues. Some times the torque converter would lock up, other times there would be a random misfire. Sometimes the lights worked, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes the horn worked, sometimes the a/c unit worked, sometimes it didn't.

After nearly 500 hours of testing and tracing wires, I finally found the problem. In the a/c control unit, the fan speed control, the rheostat had melted, and when you adjusted the fan speed, at certain points it was touching the metal frame and shorting out in various degrees based on the position. When this happened, it would freak out the computers and present in a myriad of ways.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
On Friday, leaving work, our Insight had it's second "freak-out". Got in, started the car, and was greeted with 4 "warnings". RDM failure, LKAS failure, Auto headlight failure, Auto Highbeam Failure. This time I was smart and broke out the iPhone camera. Mainly so that you guys can see what happens if the car freaks out. I also took video, to show some things a picture can't show. I'll add the videos later.

What I'd like to let everyone know, is that these momentary issues do generally correct themselves on the subsequent start. (I generally drive for 10-15 minutes. Then shut the car off for ~10 minutes). On the following restart the issues have "corrected" themselves.

Album of Pictures

Interestingly, I also discovered that the errors extend beyond the DII and interior. They actually affect the functionality of the headlights, and disable DRL operation completely.
 

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I wonder if the Insight is using the QNX embedded operating system? This is a pretty rugged and dependable system so I would be suspicious if the problem "corrects" itself on a restart. Multiple failures would indicate to me some common problem such as a loose plug or bad ground somewhere that is changed once the car is restarted and shakes around a bit. Is it always the same set of errors that you see? The software could be fooled by a bad connection leading to multiple out of range readings. If you are seeing this with different failures that I would tend to suspect something on the main computer board corrupting the incoming signals as the common element, but if the same set of failures are popping up then I would suspect something common to those particular signals not on the main circuit board.
 

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I wonder if the Insight is using the QNX embedded operating system? This is a pretty rugged and dependable system so I would be suspicious if the problem "corrects" itself on a restart. Multiple failures would indicate to me some common problem such as a loose plug or bad ground somewhere that is changed once the car is restarted and shakes around a bit. Is it always the same set of errors that you see? The software could be fooled by a bad connection leading to multiple out of range readings. If you are seeing this with different failures that I would tend to suspect something on the main computer board corrupting the incoming signals as the common element, but if the same set of failures are popping up then I would suspect something common to those particular signals not on the main circuit board.
It's happened twice over 4800 miles. Both similar situations, which leads me to believe there is an issue with the BCM and/or wiring going to the BCM.

The issue that I do have is the different systems that are affected.
DRL fail completely (NO illumination, even when selected on stalk). (Stalk)(headlight assemblies)(BCM)
Turn signal indicators fail to display, no "clicking" sound. (DII)(BCM)
HighBeams fail completely. (Stalk?)(Headlight assemblies)(BCM)
Road departure mitigation fails (Camera)(BCM)
LKAS fails (Camera)(BCM)
Auto high beams, and auto lighting fail (sensor on dash).(BCM)
Brake maintenance indicator. (ABS, Brakes, BCM, PCM etc...)

I'm curious to see if the dealership decides to replace any of the affected components, the bcm, or put us up in a loaner until they can diagnose.

The worst thing is that because this issue self corrects, it doesn't store any relevant data. Last dealership visit, they "reset" the BCM. It's been ~2 months since the last time it happened.
 

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Wow, what a set of (unfortunate) pictures. I was wondering if temperature might have been at play, but your dash display shows 'only' 78F. In terms of working thru and/or working past these issues if they happen:

Q1 - What steps do you take when you see all of those messages? Do you shut it down, then re-start it to drive the 10-15 minutes? Or does the car still start immediately after getting all those messages?

Q2 - Are you able to override any of the features (e.g. use manual headlights vs auto-headlights) or does everything get disabled once those messages appear?
 

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Could it be attributed to an overheated camera if parked outside?
 

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Wow, what a set of (unfortunate) pictures. I was wondering if temperature might have been at play, but your dash display shows 'only' 78F. In terms of working thru and/or working past these issues if they happen:

Q1 - What steps do you take when you see all of those messages? Do you shut it down, then re-start it to drive the 10-15 minutes? Or does the car still start immediately after getting all those messages?

Q2 - Are you able to override any of the features (e.g. use manual headlights vs auto-headlights) or does everything get disabled once those messages appear?
Car was parked in the shade this time, last time was first thing in the morning, so no direct sunlight on the camera. I have no issues with my camera any other time. (Yesterday at the convention center, the car registered 107*, and no issues at all).

A1- It happens during the turn-on process. Immediately shutting down and restarting does nothing. The car drives and mostly functions as it should (basically if it were a 1st gen insight). No "Honda safety features". I have to drive the vehicle for 10-15 minutes. Then shut it down and wait to restart. (assuming so the software actually goes through checking sensors, etc... then cool down for the sensors to reset.)

A2- Normal headlights work with manual controls, turn signals work (the actual lights) just no display on DII. Day time running lights and High Beams do not function at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Could it be attributed to an overheated camera if parked outside?
The car wasn't even warm. didn't turn the ac on at all that trip. It was in the shade.
 

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I have to drive the vehicle for 10-15 minutes. Then shut it down and wait to restart. (assuming so the software actually goes through checking sensors, etc... then cool down for the sensors to reset.)
In the 10-15 minutes of drive time, have you noticed whether EV engages at all? You mentioned it driving like a Gen1 Insight without Sensing... to clarify, does this mean the car still will drive as a hybrid, varying between EV/ICE when these error messages occur?
 

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In the 10-15 minutes of drive time, have you noticed whether EV engages at all? You mentioned it driving like a Gen1 Insight without Sensing... to clarify, does this mean the car still will drive as a hybrid, varying between EV/ICE?
Yes, drivetrain seems to be unaffected. IIRC paddles still operate normally as well.
 

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Electrical issues are so hard to diagnose on modern day cars due to so many sensors controlling different parts of the car. When did it happen during your first time experiencing this? I would bring it back to the dealership so they can forward this issue to Honda and have a record on file that this happened to you again.
 
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