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Now that colder weather has returned, so has this startup shudder. Like I said originally, I experience it at cold and warm starts. They can happen while driving stop and go, or while in park and it restarts to keep up with cabin heat. Warm restarts are ocassionally harsher than they were last season. Like one sharp bam and then it's running. But the hard part to understand is why its intermittent. 24k on it now
What exterior temperature range do you observe this in? For me, it restarted with temps in the 50s F and lower, and has also been intermittent; and it has occurred even when cabin heat is off (passive heating). Trying to capture as much info as possible AND figure out how to show/replicate well enough for dealer to take action.
 

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It happens more frequently in the 50s or below. There were a few cool mornings this summer when temps dipped and the shudder occured. Winter gas could probably be ruled out.
 

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It happens more frequently in the 50s or below. There were a few cool mornings this summer when temps dipped and the shudder occured. Winter gas could probably be ruled out.
I have similar exterior temperature range observation. I'm still on summer gas when the vibration re-started, so agree that winter gas can be ruled out. The vibration was non-existent for me in temps 60+ F.
 

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Maybe we start capturing HV battery level as Wifey'sInsight suggested, along with the following to see if there's a related pattern:
- HV battery level
- Cabin heat fan on/off
- Defroster on/off
- Exterior temperature
- Cold start or warm start
- Time into drive instance occurred
- Car idling/stopped or driving/in motion
- Degree of vibration (1-10 scale?)
 

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Mine does this EVERY day, at first start up and if the car has sat for a bit between runs (engine is still warm tho). HV battery charge is normally low when it’s noticed. Heat has never been on. AC always on. Operating temps between 76-102. So it’s not a temperature related issue. I really think it has to do with a slightly unbalanced generator motor introducing the shaking or just a certain rpm where the engine creates the inherent shaking of an unbalanced four cylinder. The shaking is felt as an irregular shake through the steering wheel, brake pedal, and floor and the idle sounds higher then normal and less smooth. It’s only felt when at a dead stop; in my case the ground is flat.
 

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Mine does this EVERY day, at first start up and if the car has sat for a bit between runs (engine is still warm tho). HV battery charge is normally low when it’s noticed. Heat has never been on. AC always on. Operating temps between 76-102. So it’s not a temperature related issue. I really think it has to do with a slightly unbalanced generator motor introducing the shaking or just a certain rpm where the engine creates the inherent shaking of an unbalanced four cylinder. The shaking is felt as an irregular shake through the steering wheel, brake pedal, and floor and the idle sounds higher then normal and less smooth. It’s only felt when at a dead stop; in my case the ground is flat.
People like you who can reproduce it daily are the ones that are going to be able to get this resolved or at least acknowledged eventually by Honda. I hope you persue this beyond Honda. The only way it might possibly be repaired or fixed for the next generation is if they actually see it in action and can find why it happens. Hopefully it's not like the whole Ford issue with that infamous transmission. The only thing they could actually do was replace or repair them over and over again since the only way to fix the actual problem involved a massive redesign of the transmission as well as the car due to fitment issues.

Carfreak you are an amazing person. Not only did you give me a great idea for a video when you first got here, I loved your rant on the things that annoyed about this car, but you're the only insight owner I know of who has a car that spat on him Everytime he opened the door in revenge. 🤪
 

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Could it be the gas some of us are using? I use BJs, Shell, and sometimes Costco. Haven't got the rough idle since last winter so far...
 

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Could it be the gas some of us are using? I use BJs, Shell, and sometimes Costco. Haven't got the rough idle since last winter so far...
Maybe? I have issue and use Costco gas; I refuel from same Costco location each fill up. I'm still running summer gas, since last fill-up was before 9/16. I didn't have the vibration issue during warm weather, but once exterior temps fell below 60F, the vibration returned.
 

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Might be worth a shot to try another gas station to rule out gas quality. Heard it can vary even between the same brands. I seem to get better fuel economy with BJs gas. :confused:
 

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Might be worth a shot to try another gas station to rule out gas quality. Heard it can vary even between the same brands. I seem to get better fuel economy with BJs gas. :confused:
Would like if others weigh in too... but having run on this same tank without vibration in warm weather, and now seeing return of vibration in cooler weather still on same tank... gas difference seems possible but on the lower end of probable causes. I fill all my cars at the same Costco, and only the Insight has this shuddering issue.
 

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I speculate that this is related to the VTC actuator. Honda has had trouble with them in the past.

It is part# 14310-5WJ-A01 and is referenced as #4 in this drawing. Its a part common only with the Clarity which has the same LEB6 engine

There are TSBs for the 2.4 K series in the CRV which reference intermittent issues at or below 40F and recommend its replacement.

I haven't found any sources that would have help determine the failure mode of it, but I wonder if it is sometimes starved of oil or if it employes a locking mechanism that doesn't always lock up and results in rough starts. i.e. detonation. Remember this engine has a 13.5:1 compression ratio. If the intake valve closure isn't delayed enough (atkinson mode) there could be detonation on 87 octane. This could be the rough stumbly start until oil pressure is brought up.
 

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I speculate that this is related to the VTC actuator. Honda has had trouble with them in the past.

It is part# 14310-5WJ-A01 and is referenced as #4 in this drawing. Its a part common only with the Clarity which has the same LEB6 engine

There are TSBs for the 2.4 K series in the CRV which reference intermittent issues at or below 40F and recommend its replacement.

I haven't found any sources that would have help determine the failure mode of it, but I wonder if it is sometimes starved of oil or if it employes a locking mechanism that doesn't always lock up and results in rough starts. i.e. detonation. Remember this engine has a 13.5:1 compression ratio. If the intake valve closure isn't delayed enough (atkinson mode) there could be detonation on 87 octane. This could be the rough stumbly start until oil pressure is brought up.
In past experience, these tend to fail Open (performance mode) which leads to terrible idle, and low throttle load performance. It's my understanding that the Honda systems employ electronic control over similar systems from other manufacturers that employ an oil pressure controlled system.
 

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Our car has just started a little shudder on 1st start up of the day also. Had the car almost a year now, it didn't do this last Fall or winter. Hope it gets figured out.
 

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I speculate that this is related to the VTC actuator. Honda has had trouble with them in the past.

It is part# 14310-5WJ-A01 and is referenced as #4 in this drawing. Its a part common only with the Clarity which has the same LEB6 engine

There are TSBs for the 2.4 K series in the CRV which reference intermittent issues at or below 40F and recommend its replacement.

I haven't found any sources that would have help determine the failure mode of it, but I wonder if it is sometimes starved of oil or if it employes a locking mechanism that doesn't always lock up and results in rough starts. i.e. detonation. Remember this engine has a 13.5:1 compression ratio. If the intake valve closure isn't delayed enough (atkinson mode) there could be detonation on 87 octane. This could be the rough stumbly start until oil pressure is brought up.
In past experience, these tend to fail Open (performance mode) which leads to terrible idle, and low throttle load performance. It's my understanding that the Honda systems employ electronic control over similar systems from other manufacturers that employ an oil pressure controlled system.

it is an electric over hydraulic system, meaning it has electric solenoid valves controlling the porting of engine oil to the actuator.

same for the VTEC rocker arm pins. VTEC traditionally changed the amount of valve lift based on what set of cam lobes are followed, but the timing and duration could be changed that way too. not sure how it would all play together though.

the additional variable here is that the engine can be mobile while off which i think could affect how the control passages drain and how air is introduced. like in corning for instance. right turns would tend to force oil to drain out the left end of the cam through the control valve. this could make it seem random.
 

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the additional variable here is that the engine can be mobile while off which i think could affect how the control passages drain and how air is introduced. like in corning for instance. right turns would tend to force oil to drain out the left end of the cam through the control valve. this could make it seem random.
I think most of us experience the engine vibration at cold start (and some warm starts after sitting idle for a while) rather than random experience. Other than oil pressure, are there other theories related to this that would be specific to cold(ish) start?
 

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Honda made a research paper discussing the new 3rd gen hybrid engine. https://www.hondarandd.jp/point.php?pid=1271&lang=en

It does discuss about vibration plus what they did to reduce it but I don't have the technical knowledge to understand it. Anyone can download the research paper by making a free account on the above site.





Also found another research paper where Honda discuss about an engine with compression ratio of 16:1 for future Hybrid and Plug-in Hybrid vehicles to meet SULEV20 emission regulations.
https://www.hondarandd.jp/point.php?pid=1285&lang=en



As for the random vibration I wouldn't worry about it if multiple Insight owners here are reporting it. It's either normal or a recall will happen down the road or we can lawyer up as a group.
 

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Probably had my worst vibration experience to date last night.

Outside temperature was 46* (humidity was relatively high, but not raining anymore)
Climate Control was completely turned off.
SoC- 4 bars.
Radio was the only electronic on besides headlights.

I had driven for ~20 minutes. parked for 5 minutes, and restarted. about 1 minute after starting, I was at a red light, and the engine kicked in. It was rough for ~8 seconds. I had used heat for defrosting purposes during the first drive, but had no noticeable vibration during that drive.
 

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Probably had my worst vibration experience to date last night.

Outside temperature was 46* (humidity was relatively high, but not raining anymore)
Climate Control was completely turned off.
SoC- 4 bars.
Radio was the only electronic on besides headlights.

I had driven for ~20 minutes. parked for 5 minutes, and restarted. about 1 minute after starting, I was at a red light, and the engine kicked in. It was rough for ~8 seconds. I had used heat for defrosting purposes during the first drive, but had no noticeable vibration during that drive.
I was going to say that any Insight owner can reproduce what we are describing here by following my daily routine. It mirrors your experience. I start my car, back out of driveway and drive by one small house to the end of my side street, all in EV mode. I pull out on main road, go maybe 100ft and get into a left hand turn lane to do a uturn. The engine normally turns on while pulling out and is in the increased idle condition for warm up while waiting for the uturn. This is when I feel the vibration. If the HV battery happens to be in a good state of charge, the engine may not turn on until I do the uturn, at which point, I don’t notice the vibration since I’m traveling down the road, although I do notice a louder engine then normal for the amount of acceleration I’m doing. Perhaps cooler temperatures increases the amount of time the vibration is noticeable since the engine does take longer to warm up, which may explain why some haven’t noticed it before. It’s only noticeable in that short warm up time frame. If you don’t stop during that phase, you won’t feel it.

My personal take is it’s something that can’t/won’t be fixed. Since it only happens in that short timeframe, I’m not worried about it. It’s the nature of the beast. 99% of the time, it’s smooth as silk, so I’m happy.
 
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