Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

61 - 80 of 86 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
I was going to say that any Insight owner can reproduce what we are describing here by following my daily routine. It mirrors your experience. I start my car, back out of driveway and drive by one small house to the end of my side street, all in EV mode. I pull out on main road, go maybe 100ft and get into a left hand turn lane to do a uturn. The engine normally turns on while pulling out and is in the increased idle condition for warm up while waiting for the uturn. This is when I feel the vibration. If the HV battery happens to be in a good state of charge, the engine may not turn on until I do the uturn, at which point, I don’t notice the vibration since I’m traveling down the road, although I do notice a louder engine then normal for the amount of acceleration I’m doing. Perhaps cooler temperatures increases the amount of time the vibration is noticeable since the engine does take longer to warm up, which may explain why some haven’t noticed it before. It’s only noticeable in that short warm up time frame. If you don’t stop during that phase, you won’t feel it.

My personal take is it’s something that can’t/won’t be fixed. Since it only happens in that short timeframe, I’m not worried about it. It’s the nature of the beast. 99% of the time, it’s smooth as silk, so I’m happy.
The only thing different about this particular event for me was that it happened on the second drive, the engine should have still been decently warm. It wasn't the first ICE engagement of the second drive either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
The only thing different about this particular event for me was that it happened on the second drive, the engine should have still been decently warm. It wasn't the first ICE engagement of the second drive either.
This has happened to me too, after the car has sat for around 30 minutes or so. The engine is still “warm” but not fully warmed up. This car’s engine doesn’t operate as often as normal, so it can go through multiple warm up phases if stopped for periods of time. I often park at Dunkin waiting for an order, and may sit for a bit between orders and have encountered the same exact vibration that I do on first start. But only on first pull out, where I stop a short distance later.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Probably had my worst vibration experience to date last night.

Outside temperature was 46* (humidity was relatively high, but not raining anymore)
Climate Control was completely turned off.
SoC- 4 bars.
Radio was the only electronic on besides headlights.

I had driven for ~20 minutes. parked for 5 minutes, and restarted. about 1 minute after starting, I was at a red light, and the engine kicked in. It was rough for ~8 seconds. I had used heat for defrosting purposes during the first drive, but had no noticeable vibration during that drive.
Was it the magnitude of vibration (more than prior?) or duration of vibration (8 seconds) that made this the worst observation to-date?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Perhaps cooler temperatures increases the amount of time the vibration is noticeable since the engine does take longer to warm up, which may explain why some haven’t noticed it before. It’s only noticeable in that short warm up time frame. If you don’t stop during that phase, you won’t feel it.
^Agree with this observation. If your drive is continuous (vs stop/go), you may not even notice the vibration. It tends to happen toward start of drive, in cold(er) weather, and while car is idling.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
As for the random vibration I wouldn't worry about it if multiple Insight owners here are reporting it. It's either normal or a recall will happen down the road or we can lawyer up as a group.
Recalls are triggered by the manufacturer and/or NHTSA finds a safety-related defect or out-of-compliance with federal safety standard. Beyond that, recalls can be triggered by abnormal issues that are brought to the manufacturer's attention, usually by reports and service trends from owners.

I think this vibration issue will fall under the latter, as I don't think Honda will step up to pronounce and fix this issue if they don't know it's occurring or the conditions under which it occurs. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
Was it the magnitude of vibration (more than prior?) or duration of vibration (8 seconds) that made this the worst observation to-date?
More pronounced vibration, and duration. I'm used to a subtle vibration that lasts ~3-5 seconds. Kind of like a very slight misfire. Barely noticeable. This particular episode was not subtle, and seemed to have lasted longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
More pronounced vibration, and duration. I'm used to a subtle vibration that lasts ~3-5 seconds. Kind of like a very slight misfire. Barely noticeable. This particular episode was not subtle, and seemed to have lasted longer.
Your lucky then. The funky vibes last longer then that in my car, more like 15-30 seconds when engine is cold, 5-8 seconds when engine is still “warm”.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Recalls are triggered by the manufacturer and/or NHTSA finds a safety-related defect or out-of-compliance with federal safety standard. Beyond that, recalls can be triggered by abnormal issues that are brought to the manufacturer's attention, usually by reports and service trends from owners.

I think this vibration issue will fall under the latter, as I don't think Honda will step up to pronounce and fix this issue if they don't know it's occurring or the conditions under which it occurs. :(
Follow-up article: How to File Complaint to NHTSA
- Clear description of failure
- What you did and how car responded
- Whether event resulted in damage
- Steps taken to isolate the problem
- Evidence/attachments

"Some problems, such as the Toyota unintended acceleration incidents that were scrutinized by NHTSA back in 2010, are so rare that car owners are the only ones who have actually experienced the problem. These complaints are so important because they can lead to recalls of millions of vehicles, says David Friedman, vice president of advocacy for Consumer Reports and a former acting administrator of NHTSA."

"All complaints are reviewed by the NHTSA. Some complaints may lead to an investigation, and some investigations lead to recalls."

We're still a bit in the data-gathering phase, but hoping that several of us report this to bring visibility on this 'misfire' issue to Honda and/or NHTSA.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Wanted to post a quick update on my experience with 'Engine Misfire' topic.

While using 'passive heating' (climate control fan off) thru this season's colder weather, I haven't experienced any of the shuddering effects at gas engine cold idle. Last winter (and earlier in the fall) I'd still get the engine shudder while the climate control was on.

This narrows down (for my experience at least) the relationship between the 'misfire' and the load of the heating system on a cold, idling gas engine. It doesn't address the root of the issue (i.e. why does it happen), but at least I now know how to prevent/manage it... which is small progress.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
Wanted to post a quick update on my experience with 'Engine Misfire' topic.

While using 'passive heating' (climate control fan off) thru this season's colder weather, I haven't experienced any of the shuddering effects at gas engine cold idle. Last winter (and earlier in the fall) I'd still get the engine shudder while the climate control was on.

This narrows down (for my experience at least) the relationship between the 'misfire' and the load of the heating system on a cold, idling gas engine. It doesn't address the root of the issue (i.e. why does it happen), but at least I now know how to prevent/manage it... which is small progress.
There seems to be some sort of harmonic balancing issue at play as well. If the car is in EV and the heater is on, the car vibrates slightly, when the engine kicks on this vibration seems to intensify for a few seconds and then settle down.

Once we got super-cold here I haven't noticed any "mis-fire" like vibrations though.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Once we got super-cold here I haven't noticed any "mis-fire" like vibrations though.
I haven't re-tried yet with climate control on for the season. It's been nice to have the car run without the surprise shudder. But might re-test it with climate control on soon to see. Maybe there's a certain temperature range (cold but not super cold?) that triggers this harmonic effect when climate control is on (?).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
To be fair I have also changed how long I wait to use climate control in the cold; as it is counter productive to run it initially on start up. So I drive for ~10 minutes (when I notice the car start using EV mode a few times) and then turn on the heat. I also tend to turn it off if coming to an intersection where I could be stopped for more than 30 seconds. (Lights I watched turn red for example)
 

·
Super Moderator
2019 OWP Insight EX
Joined
·
1,285 Posts
To be fair I have also changed how long I wait to use climate control in the cold; as it is counter productive to run it initially on start up. So I drive for ~10 minutes (when I notice the car start using EV mode a few times) and then turn on the heat. I also tend to turn it off if coming to an intersection where I could be stopped for more than 30 seconds. (Lights I watched turn red for example)
It's sad we need to plan like that, but you are using the best practice. I'll turn mine on when I know the ICE is going to be active. There's a long, steep hill about 15 minutes into my 50 mile drive to work. Other than that, it's kind of a game with looking at the SoC and figuring out when to kick the heat on. I'd like to not wear mittens during the winter when I drive. So far, the mittens are winning.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
Wanted to post a quick update on my experience with 'Engine Misfire' topic.

While using 'passive heating' (climate control fan off) thru this season's colder weather, I haven't experienced any of the shuddering effects at gas engine cold idle. Last winter (and earlier in the fall) I'd still get the engine shudder while the climate control was on.

This narrows down (for my experience at least) the relationship between the 'misfire' and the load of the heating system on a cold, idling gas engine. It doesn't address the root of the issue (i.e. why does it happen), but at least I now know how to prevent/manage it... which is small progress.
So, another update... I've now encountered at least once instance where the engine 'shudder' occurs, even with 'passive heating.'

Climate control was off, temps were in the 40s, and the engine was relatively cold and at idle (i.e. stop light shortly after starting car). The 'shudder' was much less than with the climate control on, but was still a noticeable extra vibration/resonance while the car wasn't moving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
not at all. but what is your fan speed setting? a high load could affect engine loads and alter timing/AFR values which could result in less shudder.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,254 Posts
not at all. but what is your fan speed setting? a high load could affect engine loads and alter timing/AFR values which could result in less shudder.
Climate control has been off so far for this season, so fan speed setting is 0/Off. Prior season it was set to On/3 bars.

What are the conditions you observe when the shudder occurs? Has it continued to happen for you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
I've found the severity seems to differ (i.e. less aggressive shudder when climate control is off), but the vibration note is still there at idle and cold engine. Do you observe the same?
I have to concur, the vibration is far less noticeable when the climate control system is off. Seems to be it's absolute worst when using defrost (both heat and a/c are running, and fan speed is generally higher than I'd run it in any other scenario).
 
61 - 80 of 86 Posts
Top