Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I purchased my 2019 EX in late June of 2018. Very pleased, but I know that Honda (and every other car company) sees hybrid technology as temporary and they are investing heavily in EV technology. Dealerships don't like EV technology and they will continue to sell IC (internal combustion) cars for a long time. The reason has to do with where their profits come from. According to Edmonds, 49.6% of dealership profits come from the service and parts department. This will start to decrease dramatically when the EV market starts taking off. On the TESLA site it says a TESLA needs "no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks. As electric cars, even brake pad replacements are rare because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on brakes." I've read somewhere that on average a modern IC engine requires replacement of about 140 parts over the course of its 250,000-300,000 mile lifetime. An electric motor requires basically zero maintenance over the same period.

What's your take on all this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
It'll interesting to see the transition. As dealerships would be less dependent on Service departments for profits in the future. As you get away from the standard dealership model, changes will have to be made, the question is, how do they change a multi-billion dollar a year industry, into something else. We all know service departments are very lucrative operations, and I'm sure Manufacturers will build the car to still have some maintenance reliance. Things like suspension components, steering, etc, would still need service, and EV's are at the moment, great at destroying tires. Computer errors, electronic glitches etc, for at least now would require specialized tools to access and repair, until the car computer can Diagnose and repair on it's own.

There are some positive trade offs as well, fixing cars with a scan tool, vs specialized knowledge of ICE. The service industry will adapt and overcome as it has in the past. The service departments have already survived major innovations to the ICE. Whether we are talking about materials, and tolerance specs, to software and computer based systems.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
I have the impression that a new service model is already afoot...

Some examples include needing to replace the full headlight assembly versus individual bulbs and initial 'troubleshooting' recommendations like replacing the full rack and pinion assembly for electrical issues.

There's huge margin on parts (e.g. $1k per headlight assembly) and arguably the dealership can just increase the cost of labor as parts like these get more integrated and complex to install/replace.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
I have the impression that a new service model is already afoot...

Some examples include needing to replace the full headlight assembly versus individual bulbs and initial 'troubleshooting' recommendations like replacing the full rack and pinion assembly for electrical issues.

There's huge margin on parts (e.g. $1k per headlight assembly) and arguably the dealership can just increase the cost of labor as parts like these get more integrated and complex to install/replace.
Not to mention anything they can deem as proprietary technology, like calibration of sensors. These calibrations have almost no "parts cost" but a large labor bill. Even if they license out these services, they still gain something financially, for no actual cost besides r&d of the process.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
Not to mention anything they can deem as proprietary technology, like calibration of sensors. These calibrations have almost no "parts cost" but a large labor bill. Even if they license out these services, they still gain something financially, for no actual cost besides r&d of the process.
So true... I forgot about that one! Windshield replacement now requiring OEM glass, potentially requiring calibration of radar and camera at the dealership, and costing 5x more than non-OEM glass.

I don't think Honda service will be going out of business any time soon...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
Interestingly, CEO Takahiro Hachigo does not believe the demand nor infrastructure for battery-only vehicles will increase and does not consider EV's a priority for Honda. Focus instead is on hybrids to make up the "2/3 of global sales by 2030' which Honda states as a goal.

Hachigo states that Honda's EV exploration (like the Honda E) is more to comply with regulations, rather than to develop a new broad/mainstream vehicle. Honda Europe will only sell hybrids and EVs by 2022.

https://ww.electrek.co/2019/12/26/honda-ceo-says-no-dramatic-increase-in-ev-demand/
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/honda-ceo-expects-hybrids-outshine-evs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
Interestingly, CEO Takahiro Hachigo does not believe the demand nor infrastructure for battery-only vehicles will increase and does not consider EV's a priority for Honda. Focus instead is on hybrids to make up the "2/3 of global sales by 2030' which Honda states as a goal.

Hachigo states that Honda's EV exploration (like the Honda E) is more to comply with regulations, rather than to develop a new broad/mainstream vehicle. Honda Europe will only sell hybrids and EVs by 2022.

https://ww.electrek.co/2019/12/26/honda-ceo-says-no-dramatic-increase-in-ev-demand/
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/honda-ceo-expects-hybrids-outshine-evs
Quote from the article

"What about full-electric vehicles?

Are there really customers who truly want them?"

Uhh... In California the Model 3 outsold the mighty Accord and is the #3 selling car, behind Civic #1 and Camry #2.

https://insideevs.com/news/399907/2019-tesla-model-3-sales-california/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
California is always.... "special" - LOL. :)
10-4 on that one. The massive amount of money from a bubbly tech market and crazy cost of real-estate means lots of techies buy fancy cars instead of homes. And the fact the EVs get to travel the HOV lane helps tremendously.

Until the prices come down for long-range full electrics, and infrastructure improves dramatically, it will stay "niche". Although warm, dense places may see a much higher up-take.

With iffy acces to charging on both ends, an EV is really off thge table for me. And with a 70km each way commute, along with Ontario winters, the only EV that would have been practical would be a tesla. And a Plugin would be pointless since even if I could charge it, it would still drain before I hit the other end, and then I'd just be dragging around a lot of dead weight.

My hypothesis is that full electric vehicles won't rollout en-masse as consumer vehicles, that they'll really take off along with sufficient self-drive capabilites that they can get people back and forth to public transit points, i.e. You call the vehicle to pick you up and it toddles along at 20m/h a mile ortwo to the nearest mass transit point.

Point-to-Point personal vehicles are incredibliy convenient, but in the high density urban environments that electric vehicles are most useful for, the cost of and nuisance of parking will probably encourage people to just not bother with it, especially if congestion charges start getting some traction. And since mass transit would now have far fewer stops, and be effectively door to door (even if it does mean still needing to make transfers), it would be a lot more pleasant and faster than the current system.

Outside dense urban areas, it's kinda a crapshoot what'll happen, probably based more on exactly how fast the tech evolves (i.e. if someone cost effectively solves range anxiety, I don't see any reason ICE couldn't disappear practically over night, but I don't see that happening... so it'll be something in between)

Cold small town places, we're sticking with ICE(hybrid) for a while, at least for primary vehicles. That said, big cities are where most cars are sold, so there's still a big market Plugins and even some full electrics as luxury and secondary vehicles.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
10-4 on that one. The massive amount of money from a bubbly tech market and crazy cost of real-estate means lots of techies buy fancy cars instead of homes. And the fact the EVs get to travel the HOV lane helps tremendously.
Specific to California 2019 sales, the Tesla Model 3 now outsells the Honda Accord and Toyota Corolla... but the Honda Civic beat it by 30% (for now). Model 3 sales are closing in on the Toyota Camry sales level.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Maybe CA has a good EV infrasructure but most areas don't. I live in an apartment I have no means of charging the car. The commuter rail station parking has no charging stations. I will be sticking to hybrids
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
This is a huge missed opportunity, in all reality. All park and rides, and commuter rail stations should be charging stations. It would be the most efficient use of mass transportation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: andrew28

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
Specific to California 2019 sales, the Tesla Model 3 now outsells the Honda Accord and Toyota Corolla... but the Honda Civic beat it by 30% (for now). Model 3 sales are closing in on the Toyota Camry sales level.
In the first 3 months of 2020, the Tesla Model 3 has jumped 2 spots to take the #1 position in California.

5329


It now outsells both the Civic and Camry in California, and is by far the top selling "near luxury car" in California.
5332


By comparison and/or as a whole outside of California, the Tesla Model 3 is ranked #8th best selling car in the total U.S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I am stunned. Nothing beats the Camry other than the Civic and Accord. Nothing beats the Accord other than the Civic and the Camry... And nothing beats the civic... You know...

For the Model 3 to beat all of them is stunning and very unexpected.


People want electric cars, despite what Takahiro Hachigo says. there aren't too many that have decent features for the cost.

Cost is not everything. The Chevy Bolt is only $29k now with $8500 GM markdown Best Memorial Day Car Deals for 2020: Huge Markdowns on These New Rides and should be outselling Model 3s by a large margin. One of the cheapest cars around is Clarity BEV for only... $179 a month, $1799 down and a $2000 state rebate. That should be flying off dealer lots!

Problem was that Honda was not serious about EV and neither was Chevy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
I saw an friend/associate/insurance guy a few months ago before Coronavirus. Was really interested in my Tesla. I saw him again today, he said they were going to pickup their new model 3 later that afternoon.

He talked about their decision to buy the Tesla. Lease on their IS250 was running out and the wife worked for an automotive parts supplier that had a giant contract with Tesla but due to overall slowdown, got laid off. Turn around got a new job with a lengthy commute. They wanted to go electric not to mention carpool length access. They looked and test drove Clarity PHEV, Clarity EV and Model 3 SR+ (standard range plus).

Clarity EV didn't have the range they were looking for. So it came down to Clarity PHEV and Model 3.

Costwise PHEV is $33000 MSRP - 7500 fed credit - 1000 state rebate - 1000 untility rebate = 23.5k

Model 3 SR+ is 37990+1500 wheel upgrade = 39490 - 2000 state rebate - 1000 utility rebate = $36490.

They choose the Tesla. The wife is not a tech person and can barely manage her iPhone but saw the advancement in Tesla vs other cars and got more and more interested in it. They also highly disliked all the buttons and the cluttered interior of the clarity vs the minimalist model 3. They were concerned about having to switch to gas and losing efficiency in hyrbid mode. Also a bit of concern with PHEV losing carpool lane access (access is not based on vehicle type but rather by sticker issuance year... But maybe they misunderstood that)...

Both clarity PHEV and EV were way cheaper than the Model 3 SR+.... but they chose the $12k pricier Tesla.

Price is not everything and there are plenty of cheap EVs and PHEV like clarity, bolt and Prius prime... But Tesla kills all of these combined because Honda was not serious about building a EV and don't have a compelling option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
When Tesla gets the model 3 or even cheaper model to roughly 400 mile range.. I’m in..

Would be even better if Lyft offered their seasoned and highly rated drivers an incentive to get an electric car since they announced they are going all electric for all their drivers by 2030 (not sure how they are going to do that).

Would be so cool if they gave a 10-15k cash incentive for aforementioned drivers toward an electric car purchase.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top