[J. Bond]

Love the Insight. Great fun to drive. Makes one want to run errands just to take it out and see what kind of MPG one can achieve.

Still, after a few local trips this past week, FIVE glaring design defects emerged. Call them physical design problems or interface problems, they are signs that Honda engineers were sleeping or playing video games the day they designed them!

Here are the first three. To not overwhelm the forums (or overstay my welcome), I’ll just post these today and post the two major ones in the coming days.


1. Door Sealing Against the Rain—What Sealing?

I have been shocked and dismayed by this. Drive in a downpour—or wash the car—and all sorts of water creeps in under the door sill and even onto the inside ledge inside the car. I’ve noticed this after spritzing the car, or even hand-washing it, and especially after driving in the rain. Right under the bottom edge of the door, you can see the rain and rain spots or mini-puddles; open the door and you see more; and some of the water is even scattered inside, splashed up higher onto the next ledge. The sealing doesn’t seem to be very good.

While I recall seeing raindrops or water on the lower sill in our Accord, they definitely never showed up on the next ledge up.

Are other people seeing this?​

2. Right Camera Comes On Too Easily

Several times now, when I’ve been turning LEFT, I’ve inadvertently pressed the end of the turn signal stalk and the right camera has come on. Now, that’s driver distraction! You think you’ve put on the left turn signal, which you probably have, but the right lane display shows up. I’ve then turned off my turn signal, a natural reaction to turn off the camera but, of course, it remains on. One time, I overshot the signal and, so, there I was attempting a left turn, but with the right turn signal on and the camera view for the right lane on.

Three conclusions. The end of stalk turning on is too sensitive. It should never come on when turning left. It should go off when the driver changes or turns off the turn signaling.​

3. Trip Meter Resetting Confusion

I assume, but do not want to test this, that if one inadvertently presses rather than rolls the selector switch (e.g., to go from the Trip A to Trip B meter) that one is prompted to confirm. Otherwise, that looks like a risky set up in that you could inadvertently reset it. In fact, why is resetting there at all? It looks ripe for a disaster, especially if one has kids (or a dog)! (OK, I guess a dog wouldn’t have the key or turn on ACC power.) There should be an option to block the reset entirely from the steering wheel to avoid inadvertent presses and resets.​

 

[insightfully]

Here are the first three. To not overwhelm the forums (or overstay my welcome), I’ll just post these today and post the two major ones in the coming days.

1. Door Sealing Against the Rain—What Sealing?

[...] While I recall seeing raindrops or water on the lower sill in our Accord, they definitely never showed up on the next ledge up. Are other people seeing this?​

2. Right Camera Comes On Too Easily

[...] Three conclusions. The end of stalk turning on is too sensitive. It should never come on when turning left. It should go off when the driver changes or turns off the turn signaling.​

3. Trip Meter Resetting Confusion

I assume, but do not want to test this, that if one inadvertently presses rather than rolls the selector switch (e.g., to go from the Trip A to Trip B meter) that one is prompted to confirm. [...] There should be an option to block the reset entirely from the steering wheel to avoid inadvertent presses and resets.​

I'm also experiencing the poor "door sealing against the rain." I find water bead markings on the inside bottom sill on doors that haven't been opened or used during rainy weather. I haven't seen this on my older Hondas, and maybe gave Honda too much credit in thinking this was a new design 'feature' for directing water away from other windows and openings. I'm interested to hear if this is common across all Insights and if there's a weatherstripping fix -?

I haven't experienced the camera coming on without deliberate press of the button. But perhaps my fingers contact the turn stalk at a different place than your experience.

The Trip Meter does indeed have a second prompt, asking for confirmation before reset. I've accidentally pressed it myself and had a moment of panic until the second prompt came up. However, it's possible that an accidental 2-press click on this selection could reset it if one wasn't careful.

(...waiting with bated breath for your final two observations. I bet they're good ones!)

 

[andrew28]

Love the Insight. Great fun to drive. Makes one want to run errands just to take it out and see what kind of MPG one can achieve.

Still, after a few local trips this past week, FIVE glaring design defects emerged. Call them physical design problems or interface problems, they are signs that Honda engineers were sleeping or playing video games the day they designed them!

Here are the first three. To not overwhelm the forums (or overstay my welcome), I’ll just post these today and post the two major ones in the coming days.


1. Door Sealing Against the Rain—What Sealing?

I have been shocked and dismayed by this. Drive in a downpour—or wash the car—and all sorts of water creeps in under the door sill and even onto the inside ledge inside the car. I’ve noticed this after spritzing the car, or even hand-washing it, and especially after driving in the rain. Right under the bottom edge of the door, you can see the rain and rain spots or mini-puddles; open the door and you see more; and some of the water is even scattered inside, splashed up higher onto the next ledge. The sealing doesn’t seem to be very good.

While I recall seeing raindrops or water on the lower sill in our Accord, they definitely never showed up on the next ledge up.

Are other people seeing this?​

2. Right Camera Comes On Too Easily

Several times now, when I’ve been turning LEFT, I’ve inadvertently pressed the end of the turn signal stalk and the right camera has come on. Now, that’s driver distraction! You think you’ve put on the left turn signal, which you probably have, but the right lane display shows up. I’ve then turned off my turn signal, a natural reaction to turn off the camera but, of course, it remains on. One time, I overshot the signal and, so, there I was attempting a left turn, but with the right turn signal on and the camera view for the right lane on.

Three conclusions. The end of stalk turning on is too sensitive. It should never come on when turning left. It should go off when the driver changes or turns off the turn signaling.​

3. Trip Meter Resetting Confusion

I assume, but do not want to test this, that if one inadvertently presses rather than rolls the selector switch (e.g., to go from the Trip A to Trip B meter) that one is prompted to confirm. Otherwise, that looks like a risky set up in that you could inadvertently reset it. In fact, why is resetting there at all? It looks ripe for a disaster, especially if one has kids (or a dog)! (OK, I guess a dog wouldn’t have the key or turn on ACC power.) There should be an option to block the reset entirely from the steering wheel to avoid inadvertent presses and resets.​

Yep, I know what you're talking about. That's where all the black caked up crud sits until I wipe it at the end of the month. I hope I remember this correctly but that's where water from inside the door drains out.


I never experienced this issue since I make my turn signals by flicking up/down near the middle of the stalk.


I don't really browse much in the DII and just have power flow up on it so can't say it's a problem for me.


I love reading about the Insight(good or bad) so keep posting.:grin:

 

[hasarad]

Now that you mention it, the door seal and crud the accumulates is something I've noticed. We've had a rainy spring, so more so lately. It's a good thing Harbor Freight has freebie microfiber towels for just such an emergency I keep a stock in a bag in the trunk.

 

[sEXzNsite]

Love the Insight. Great fun to drive. Makes one want to run errands just to take it out and see what kind of MPG one can achieve.

Still, after a few local trips this past week, FIVE glaring design defects emerged. Call them physical design problems or interface problems, they are signs that Honda engineers were sleeping or playing video games the day they designed them!

Here are the first three. To not overwhelm the forums (or overstay my welcome), I’ll just post these today and post the two major ones in the coming days.


1. Door Sealing Against the Rain—What Sealing?

I have been shocked and dismayed by this. Drive in a downpour—or wash the car—and all sorts of water creeps in under the door sill and even onto the inside ledge inside the car. I’ve noticed this after spritzing the car, or even hand-washing it, and especially after driving in the rain. Right under the bottom edge of the door, you can see the rain and rain spots or mini-puddles; open the door and you see more; and some of the water is even scattered inside, splashed up higher onto the next ledge. The sealing doesn’t seem to be very good.

While I recall seeing raindrops or water on the lower sill in our Accord, they definitely never showed up on the next ledge up.

Are other people seeing this?​

2. Right Camera Comes On Too Easily

Several times now, when I’ve been turning LEFT, I’ve inadvertently pressed the end of the turn signal stalk and the right camera has come on. Now, that’s driver distraction! You think you’ve put on the left turn signal, which you probably have, but the right lane display shows up. I’ve then turned off my turn signal, a natural reaction to turn off the camera but, of course, it remains on. One time, I overshot the signal and, so, there I was attempting a left turn, but with the right turn signal on and the camera view for the right lane on.

Three conclusions. The end of stalk turning on is too sensitive. It should never come on when turning left. It should go off when the driver changes or turns off the turn signaling.​

3. Trip Meter Resetting Confusion

I assume, but do not want to test this, that if one inadvertently presses rather than rolls the selector switch (e.g., to go from the Trip A to Trip B meter) that one is prompted to confirm. Otherwise, that looks like a risky set up in that you could inadvertently reset it. In fact, why is resetting there at all? It looks ripe for a disaster, especially if one has kids (or a dog)! (OK, I guess a dog wouldn’t have the key or turn on ACC power.) There should be an option to block the reset entirely from the steering wheel to avoid inadvertent presses and resets.​

(1) First time I washed the car this morning and YES I did notice the same thing of a poor seal. I thought WT%%!

(2) Never had Lane Watch come on like in your instance, but I guess that's because I haven't accidentally touched the button. However, if you press the button on the stick anytime Lane Watch is displayed, it will Turn Off. So, if you activate the right turn signal and Lane Watch appears on the screen, press the button and the info display will return to what was showing prior to activating the turn signal.

(3) As Insightfully stated, there is a second prompt. I thought i almost BOO BOO'd myself the first time :surprise:

 

[insightfully]

Yep, I know what you're talking about. That's where all the black caked up crud sits until I wipe it at the end of the month. I hope I remember this correctly but that's where water from inside the door drains out.

I think you're correct on this. I was reading that newer Hondas have 'door drains' in place of door plugs (?), plus a sealed vapor barrier behind the door panel to prevent rusting. Would like to see pictures of this, if anyone in forum has had the front door panel removed.

I also think I'll start checking the drain hole for any leaves or debris that may clog the drain holes, in addition to wiping up the accumulated water/grime. While the vapor barrier should keep everything sealed, minimizing residual water buildup sounds like a good idea s well.

 

[hasarad]

I think you're correct on this. I was reading that newer Hondas have 'door drains' in place of door plugs (?), plus a sealed vapor barrier behind the door panel to prevent rusting. Would like to see pictures of this, if anyone in forum has had the front door panel removed.

I also think I'll start checking the drain hole for any leaves or debris that may clog the drain holes, in addition to wiping up the accumulated water/grime. While the vapor barrier should keep everything sealed, minimizing residual water buildup sounds like a good idea s well.

I took care of the leaves/debris problem right after I bought my Insight. I had the tree over my driveway cut down! Every fall and spring it was puking on my cars!

 

[andrew28]

I think you're correct on this. I was reading that newer Hondas have 'door drains' in place of door plugs (?), plus a sealed vapor barrier behind the door panel to prevent rusting. Would like to see pictures of this, if anyone in forum has had the front door panel removed.

I also think I'll start checking the drain hole for any leaves or debris that may clog the drain holes, in addition to wiping up the accumulated water/grime. While the vapor barrier should keep everything sealed, minimizing residual water buildup sounds like a good idea s well.

I have taken some pictures of my door seals. You can see tiny holes and slits where water comes out. I'm still not 100% sure it's coming from inside the door though...

I took care of the leaves/debris problem right after I bought my Insight. I had the tree over my driveway cut down! Every fall and spring it was puking on my cars!

Yeah, I'm dealing with that problem since I park on the street with multiple trees. Pollen and dust all over the car along with the dead bugs. Just imagine what it looks like the next day after I waxed the car... :sad:

 

[BILLBOGEY]

Are those little holes in the first pic supposed to be water drain holes?

 

[andrew28]

Are those little holes in the first pic supposed to be water drain holes?

That door seal also wraps up to the side of the door. I'm starting to think they might be air holes instead of drain holes so when you close the door. The door seal can flatten out. I think the ones pictured in 2 & 3 are the water drain holes.

 

[BILLBOGEY]

That door seal also wraps up to the side of the door. I'm starting to think they might be air holes instead of drain holes so when you close the door. The door seal can flatten out. I think the ones pictured in 2 & 3 are the water drain holes.

Thanks, I think you are right on this.

 

[J. Bond]

Thanks, folks for all your responses, including tips! It's reassuring at one level to know that the rain splash is a general issue rather than something peculiar to my car that I would have to go back to the dealer about.

I think having a rag in the car, or in the garage, and remembering to wipe off the rain (or car wash rinse) right away is a good idea.

I promised to post a couple of other defects, but got busy on a book project. So, without further ado, here are the two additional defects. (I have a bunch of minor ones to post, too, but I'll hold off on those as this is already a LONG post!)


4. The “Main” Problem with Invoking the Horn

One has to be careful when one wants to beep the horn. Contrary to previous Hondas where one could activate the horn by hitting along the spoke to the outer rim, on the Insight you have to pound the center area of the steering wheel. Of course, what you then get is a pathetic “toot” rather than a real car horn. That’s bad enough, but the real problem is that it’s all too easy to hit the Main button, even a glancing touch, and turn OFF the Lane Keep Assist and the Automatic Cruise Control. Doing that should require a longer press not a passing glance!​

______________________________________________________

A Long One With Sub-sections!


5. Headlight Indicators are OFF, WAY OFF

We were out driving in the rain for the first time and, to comport with state law, and because it makes sense, we turned on our headlights. However, that’s when confusion set it. It was utterly unclear what the different symbols on the light switch stalk meant.

The first setting on the stalk is labeled OFF. Easy enough. The second looks like lights are turned on. Then, there’s Auto. Finally, what is the actual Headlights ON is marked by something that looks like High Beams, not regular headlights. That symbol mirrors one that has been used on other cars for years to mean High is on. Instead, for the Insight, it just means the headlights are on.​

DASHBOARD INDICATOR NEVER CHANGES

What made all of this much worse is that the dashboard did NOT change the symbol being displayed! It showed the very same symbol regardless of which stalk setting I chose! We truly thought something had broken in the mechanism and software. Poor interface design.

Even worse, the indicator on the dashboard is the same symbol as the Parking Lights one on the stalk and doesn’t change even if you turn on your Headlights! That makes no sense and is dangerously confusing.​

HIGH BEAM INDICATOR LOOKS LIKE THE HEADLIGHT SWITCH

Worse, when you turn on High Beams with the stalk, that dashboard symbol changes, but it changes to something that looks virtually identical to the stalk’s symbol for headlights! (It’s actually a filled in symbol, but one has to be in the know to tell that—or, have pored over the manual.) That’s again poor design. When you turn on high beams, you aren’t filling in the light, you are projecting them upwards to a greater distance. The symbol should show that, not fill in a symbol that looks like one on the stalk.

The Parking Lights symbol should be changed so that its meaning in clearer—e.g., to a car icon, with little lights. The headlights indicator should be different, too, so that it doesn’t look like High Beams.

But, critically, whatever one picks on the headlight switch should be shown identically in the dashboard in front of the driver. One should not have to look down at the headlight switch to see what setting it’s in!​

NO INDICATOR FOR AUTO

Compounding the problem, when you’ve put the switch in Auto, there is no indication in the center console you’ve chosen that, unless the car decides to turn on High Beams. Then, it replaces the filled in High Beams symbol with an A rather than changing the headlight symbol—e.g., by changing the indicator to show the beams pointing higher. What sense does that make?

It looks like Auto is on, along with Headlights, not High Beams.

This needs to be redesigned and overhauled. As soon as one selects Auto, the headlight indicator in the console should show the A next to the light symbol to tell the driver that’s what’s been selected. Then, the headlight symbol next to the A should change depending upon what it’s doing—Parking Light, Headlights, High Beams.​

CONCLUSION: A MESS

In other words, the lighting indicators are a confused morass, that don’t mirror what’s been selected. If this had been turned into a Human Interface Design class, it would deservedly fail.​

Again, please don't mistake my highlighting these (no pun intended) as any overall disparagement of the Insight. We love the car, but there are some things that should change!

 

[insightfully]

I promised to post a couple of other defects, but got busy on a book project. So, without further ado, here are the two additional defects. (I have a bunch of minor ones to post, too, but I'll hold off on those as this is already a LONG post!)

4. The “Main” Problem with Invoking the Horn One has to be careful when one wants to beep the horn. Contrary to previous Hondas where one could activate the horn by hitting along the spoke to the outer rim, on the Insight you have to pound the center area of the steering wheel. Of course, what you then get is a pathetic “toot” rather than a real car horn. That’s bad enough, but the real problem is that it’s all too easy to hit the Main button, even a glancing touch, and turn OFF the Lane Keep Assist and the Automatic Cruise Control. Doing that should require a longer press not a passing glance!

The horn placement (and horn quality) definitely takes getting used to and isn't my favorite. The one 'benefit' of center placement is that regardless of where the steering wheel is in rotation, the horn is 'always' at the middle if needed. I tend to use a 'set and forget' strategy, and haven't had the issue of passing touch affecting the Main button.


5. Headlight Indicators are OFF, WAY OFF

We were out driving in the rain for the first time and, to comport with state law, and because it makes sense, we turned on our headlights. However, that’s when confusion set it. It was utterly unclear what the different symbols on the light switch stalk meant.

Agree, this one took some getting used-to as well. The 4 positions are Off (front daytime running lights only); 'Parking' Lights (adds/activates the rear idle taillights); Auto (operated by the front dashboard light sensor); and Full On (lowbeams only). The highbeams are only activated when in the Auto feature triggers it OR when the stalk is pulled toward you. Rather than looking at the symbols, I now think about just the knob position. The analogy to my older Honda is that the "Auto" position is added between the 'Parking' Light and Full On settings. I also choose to run my headlights manually rather than rely on Auto, so I know what position my headlight controls are in at a given time. To my simple mind, manual operation helps the indicators make more sense and eliminate guessing on how to interpret the headlight symbol(s).​

 

[andrew28]

I find the Insight's headlight switch pretty straight forward compared to my 17 Ford Fusion. I actually had trouble finding the switch when I got it(drove it the first night with just the daytime running lights ) since it wasn't even on the turn signal stalk. Ford decided to place it right below the air vent closes to the door and didn't even bother putting a small description what each symbol meant. Had to youtube "how to use Ford Fusion headlights" to understand how to operate it. Before you guys laugh, 102,063 people watched this video .

 

[insightfully]

I find the Insight's headlight switch pretty straight forward compared to my 17 Ford Fusion. I actually had trouble finding the switch when I got it(drove it the first night with just the daytime running lights ) since it wasn't even on the turn signal stalk.

Hmm... interesting design. I also recall seeing a post on Ford's "rotation dial" transmission selector. Space-saving, but kind of weird. One thing I'd say the Fusion headlight controls have going for it (in my opinion) is "AUTO" is placed in the last position. For people like myself who run headlights manually, it'd be easier to operate (one less click) without having to go past AUTO on the Insight's stalk.

 

[hasarad]

I've had my headlight switch in auto since the day I took delivery. When I turn on the wipers, the lights go on automatically. I haven't had any issues with the high-beams. Blue is on. The green headlight symbol (looks similar to the blue high-bean symbol) indicates the high-bean is set to auto. A pull back turns it off for manual invocation. I've never felt the light switch was in any way confusing. Then again, I prefer the Showtime Rotisserie "set it, and forget it" setting. The car seems to take care of everything for me.

On a related note, I drove my mom's Lexus today, got to the restaurant and turned off the car. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why I couldn't lock the car when I got out. Wouldn't you know, a regular Lexus will not put itself in park when you stop the engine? Yes, the Insight has spoiled me a l'il bit.

 

[J. Bond]

Appreciate the responses. I have no real problem with the headlight stalk switch, at least not after the first use and reading up on it.

It's the discrepancy between what's on the stalk and what's shown on the dash — or not shown — that's troubling. You'd think they would correspond to each other. And, that it would alert you to when Auto is on and show you the changes the car was making.

For example, to repeat myself.

DASHBOARD INDICATOR NEVER CHANGES

What made all of this much worse is that the dashboard did NOT change the symbol being displayed! It showed the very same symbol regardless of which stalk setting I chose! We truly thought something had broken in the mechanism and software. Poor interface design.

Even worse, the indicator on the dashboard is the same symbol as the Parking Lights one on the stalk and doesn’t change even if you turn on your Headlights! That makes no sense and is dangerously confusing.​

 

[Wifey'sInsight]

Am I missing something? I notice just fine when the headlights are on via the dash. But I tend to leave it in auto. I will get some pictures so this can be explained more thoroughly.

Also Just a correction, but to turn on the high beam manually is accomplished by pressing the stalk towards the dash. Flashing or turning auto on/off is with a pull towards the steering wheel.

 

[Wifey'sInsight]

I find the Insight's headlight switch pretty straight forward compared to my 17 Ford Fusion. I actually had trouble finding the switch when I got it(drove it the first night with just the daytime running lights ) since it wasn't even on the turn signal stalk. Ford decided to place it right below the air vent closes to the door and didn't even bother putting a small description what each symbol meant. Had to youtube "how to use Ford Fusion headlights" to understand how to operate it. Before you guys laugh, 102,063 people watched this video . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KClg7GV_eFs

The opposite of Chryslers dial set-up. IIRC in my dart it was toggle left for off. Default was auto, going to the right was running lights, then headlights. Pushed in for fog-lights.

 

[Mobilcams]

It rains a lot and is humid a lot of the time here in Florida (It can be 85 degrees in the AM and your car is covered in mist/water - it looks like it rained and when you try to turn on your wipers it doesn't go away).. It rained a LOT today.. I went out to my car after it stopped - and I had a couple of drops on me.. It was NOTHING compared to what I could have had on me. It's a different system - it may not work 100 percent but I for one will not melt.. I'm sure the average Joe won't care at all. If you want a luxury car that MAYBE doesn't have the same problem go buy one. This is a very whiny first world problem to me.. Lol