[J. Bond]

We're really enjoying our Insight, but I have several questions. #2 and #4 are biggies.


1. Multi-trip MPG Display?

Is there any of showing the MPG for the last three or four trips, along with the miles driven for each? Heck, I’d even take the last two trips, if it would show the miles driven.​

2. How to Tell If CMBS Functioning?

How can I tell if the Collision Mitigation Brake System is working? I test drove a Honda Accord Hybrid during our shopping for a new car and found that it was phenomenally good at warning you when you were going a bit too fast relative to the car ahead of you, say one that had slowed down or stopped or was slowly making a turn. Alas, in the Insight, the orange BRAKE warning never seems to come on, even in situations when it did with the Accord. I’ve now changed the setting for it from Normal to Long and, finally, the other day, it came on once, but it still rarely comes on in situations when I know it should and where it did with the Accord.​

3. Speed Limit Sign in Center Info Panel?

Is there any way of showing the Speed Limit sign in the center console (information display)? That’s a request from a front-seat passenger.​

4. Engine Algorithm Changed? (This is a repeat of a comment I posted in another thread; sorry for the duplication!)

Did Honda change the algorithms for when the gas engine kicks in? Or, is there a difference with the EX trim? Or, are there variations among units?

In our test drives of an early LX, the car was entirely silent, even when pressing down on the accelerator and going up hills. In fact, we couldn’t understand what any of the fuss was about the Insight’s engine making noise. In a later LX, IIRC, and in the EX we test drove on the very same route as the first LX, and eventually bought, the noise was noticeable under certain conditions, more so in the EX.

The noise also seems to have gotten worse the more we have driven the car.​

5. Which displays do you use for the dashboard and the center console?

I’ve defaulted to showing the Trip A Fuel Economy meter on the dash (or whatever the one is called that shows miles traveled and MPG) and showing the Trip Meter with instant MPG on the current trip on the center console.​

 

[insightfully]

1. Multi-trip MPG Display? Is there any of showing the MPG for the last three or four trips, along with the miles driven for each? Heck, I’d even take the last two trips, if it would show the miles driven.
On the infotainment screen, you can view prior mpg and distance per trip. If you have one of the trip meters reset for each drive, this would show the result summary you requested. On the drivers information interface (DII), a 'simpler' mpg-only summary (no distance) is available. Attachment 1 is example from @hasarad on infotainment screen, and Attachment 2 is sample of drivers interface view.

2. How to Tell If CMBS Functioning?

How can I tell if the Collision Mitigation Brake System is working? I test drove a Honda Accord Hybrid during our shopping for a new car and found that it was phenomenally good at warning you when you were going a bit too fast relative to the car ahead of you, say one that had slowed down or stopped or was slowly making a turn.
CMBS is "always on" every time the car is started. It can be selected "off" for a drive (press safety support switch to left of steering wheel, then use selector wheel - attachment 3), but always turns back on at next power cycle by default. While not perfectly identical to the Accord, there's a view available on the (DII) that shows the distance between you and the vehicle ahead of you; the image turns amber when the distance between vehicles is too close (Attachment 4).

3. Speed Limit Sign in Center Info Panel? Is there any way of showing the Speed Limit sign in the center console (information display)? That’s a request from a front-seat passenger.
The speed limit information only displays on the DII, as far as I've seen.

4. Engine Algorithm Changed? Did Honda change the algorithms for when the gas engine kicks in? Or, is there a difference with the EX trim? Or, are there variations among units?
With Hondas being mass production, I'm pretty certain the same algorithm is used across a given model. Instead, perhaps factors like starting battery level, exterior temperature, or length of drive played a role in the different gas engine results that were observed during test drives -?

5. Which displays do you use for the dashboard and the center console? I’ve defaulted to showing the Trip A Fuel Economy meter on the dash (or whatever the one is called that shows miles traveled and MPG) and showing the Trip Meter with instant MPG on the current trip on the center console.[/QUOTE]
I've tried different view combinations and for myself, I've settled on "Range and Fuel" view on the DII (attachment 5), and "Power Flow" on the infotainment screen. I initially found it confusing that Honda offers the SAME options to be viewed on either the DII or the infotainment screen; but have learned to accept it as a 'feature' that allows info to be viewed in different ways/places. @mgldan also offered some helpful perspective in a separate thread posted HERE.​

 

[andrew28]

Speedlimit sign is only for the DII but you can always open up Waze or Google Maps to see the speed limit(on supported roads) through the center console. I personally use the power flow screen on the DII and Waze on the center console when I drive.

 

[hasarad]

The only changes to the algorithm in #4 are done by the drive mode you are in (ECO/Normal/Sport). Here's the deal in a nutshell:

Any exceeding of the blue power band in any drive mode normally invokes the ICE.

Sport Mode will always attempt to keep the battery at 80% for power reserve.

ECO and normal mode will kick in the ICE when battery falls to 4 bars or less or sometimes when power is in the top half of the blue power band with less than half battery.

EV mode will kick in the ICE when battery drops to two bars or blue band is exceeded.

And, most annoyingly, The ICE will just kick in in any mode until the battery is near full with no reason stated when trying, unsuccessfully, to engage EV mode when it should be available. I'm open to hearing reasons for this. It only seems to happen one time in any drive. I am relating this to some type of battery maintenance/calibration, but I'd really like to know the true answer - all the display will show at the time is "EV Mode Unavailable."


Cluster and center console-wise, I keep the current drive trip meter range and fuel in the cluster and Waze in the center console. I find the power band around the range and fuel to be the most beneficial in helping to drive efficiently. I am more concerned with power in/power out than where the power is going (to battery or wheels). After all, the goal is to use a little power as possible to get the results we're seeking. Knowing where you are on the power band helps you be better able to work to engage the EV side of things and avoid the ICE running when you know you have just that "little bit" to go before you hit the paydirt of a downhill. I live in a hilly part of NJ, so it's become a game for me.

 

[andrew28]

Cluster and center console-wise, I keep the current drive trip meter range and fuel in the cluster and Waze in the center console. I find the power band around the range and fuel to be the most beneficial in helping to drive efficiently. I am more concerned with power in/power out than where the power is going (to battery or wheels). After all, the goal is to use a little power as possible to get the results we're seeking. Knowing where you are on the power band helps you be better able to work to engage the EV side of things and avoid the ICE running when you know you have just that "little bit" to go before you hit the paydirt of a downhill. I live in a hilly part of NJ, so it's become a game for me.

I'm going to start switching over to the one that shows current MPG as I drive for the DII. This way it would motivate me to drive better if I'm slacking. I currently have the power flow because I like looking at the graphics and have the car surprise me with whatever MPG I get at the end. :smile_big:

 

[insightfully]

I'm going to start switching over to the one that shows current MPG as I drive for the DII. This way it would motivate me to drive better if I'm slacking. I currently have the power flow because I like looking at the graphics and have the car surprise me with whatever MPG I get at the end. :smile_big:

Yup, that selection on the DII is the "Range and Fuel" display... and it is indeed very motivating. :wink:

 

[hasarad]

Yup, that selection on the DII is the "Range and Fuel" display... and it is indeed very motivating. :wink:

Kind of like trying to beat your hi score on the daily work commute!

 

[Wifey'sInsight]

And, most annoyingly, The ICE will just kick in in any mode until the battery is near full with no reason stated when trying, unsuccessfully, to engage EV mode when it should be available. I'm open to hearing reasons for this. It only seems to happen one time in any drive. I am relating this to some type of battery maintenance/calibration, but I'd really like to know the true answer - all the display will show at the time is "EV Mode Unavailable."

The battery pack has to be at within a certain temperature range to allow "EV mode". The ice helps accomplish this by either charging the battery (to heat it), or using the Ice for power to cool the battery pack. That's my basic understanding of it.

Also at least once every key cycle the ICE will run for approximately 2 minutes to get up to operating temperature. This has caused me to "leave the car on" when making a quick stop somewhere I feel comfortable that the car won't be taken. I turn the ac and radio off and just leave it in park for the couple of minutes I'm inside, lock with the key fob. I've yet to figure out the right combination of conditions to avoid this "start-up" process. Unless I'm getting straight on the highway, I do try to refrain from re-starting the vehicle.

 

[hasarad]

The battery pack has to be at within a certain temperature range to allow "EV mode". The ice helps accomplish this by either charging the battery (to heat it), or using the Ice for power to cool the battery pack. That's my basic understanding of it.

Except my Insight will do this 20 miles into a 50 mile drive after temps have already stabilized

Also at least once every key cycle the ICE will run for approximately 2 minutes to get up to operating temperature. This has caused me to "leave the car on" when making a quick stop somewhere I feel comfortable that the car won't be taken. I turn the ac and radio off and just leave it in park for the couple of minutes I'm inside, lock with the key fob. I've yet to figure out the right combination of conditions to avoid this "start-up" process. Unless I'm getting straight on the highway, I do try to refrain from re-starting the vehicle.

I'm not MPG-centric in that I believe zero miles per gallon should never occur. If I need to stop and the engine will be running for warm-up, I'll kill the car until I need to move again. This is a rarity as the time required is only a minute or two for warm up, and, living in the country, I can drive that far initially without stopping. It's only in wintertime while using the heat that the running ICE condition is not easy to overcome without mittens

 

[Wifey'sInsight]

Except my Insight will do this 20 miles into a 50 mile drive after temps have already stabilized



I'm not MPG-centric in that I believe zero miles per gallon should never occur. If I need to stop and the engine will be running for warm-up, I'll kill the car until I need to move again. This is a rarity as the time required is only a minute or two for warm up, and, living in the country, I can drive that far initially without stopping. It's only in wintertime while using the heat that the running ICE condition is not easy to overcome without mittens

Got my gears going, the only thing I can think of is that the ICE may not be of operating temperature, and the car starts it for lubrication purposes, before allowing it to go into full ev. It doesn't make the most sense, but it seems to be the only logical reason I can see the car needing to do this.

Also 2nd part, I only leave the car on to prevent "another" warm up cycle after I've already started driving. Unfortunately my start points are surrounded by traffic lights, and a bad red light can drop my trip average by as many as 20mpg.

 

[hasarad]

Got my gears going, the only thing I can think of is that the ICE may not be of operating temperature, and the car starts it for lubrication purposes, before allowing it to go into full ev. It doesn't make the most sense, but it seems to be the only logical reason I can see the car needing to do this.

Also 2nd part, I only leave the car on to prevent "another" warm up cycle after I've already started driving. Unfortunately my start points are surrounded by traffic lights, and a bad red light can drop my trip average by as many as 20mpg.

I wish the Insight could tell me a reason instead of displaying "EV mode unavailable." I'd totally be okay with it as long as I knew a reason.

I hear you regarding the stop lights. I have a set of train tracks on my work commute which I find myself stopped at for a train at least once a week. Oh, and it's one of those long slow freight trains as well. My record time stopped there is ten minutes. Even in winter, I'll turn of the engine and freeze to death just for principle.

 

[Mobilcams]

If it's staying in ICE only mode for the most part of your 50 mile drive, you may be driving over 70mph.. That's my experience..

 

[hasarad]

If it's staying in ICE only mode for the most part of your 50 mile drive, you may be driving over 70mph.. That's my experience..

Negative. My drive rarely exceeds 50mph.

 

[Mobilcams]

Negative. My drive rarely exceeds 50mph.

If you aren’t in sports mode and the engine is staying on most of the time there may be something amiss.

 

[hasarad]

If you aren’t in sports mode and the engine is staying on most of the time there may be something amiss.

I'd love to ask the dealer the next time I'm in for service, but it seems I never need to go in for service!

I would almost dread the answer I'd get since it seems most dealers don't have that much insight (no pun intended) into the mysterious, deep workings of the 2-motor hybrid system as it pertains to the algorithms it uses. I have no doubt my question is answered deep in the lines of code. I can't really complain based on the mileage I've been getting. At most, it's a minor annoyance. I just want to know why!

 

[andrew28]

Just a wild guess, maybe it needs to charge the AGM battery, which is normally done by the alternator. Some perks of a hybrid no alternator, no reverse gear(Not 100% sure on the Insight but the Prius goes in reverse using the electric motor), reduced brake pad wear.


I wouldn't worry about it @hasarad because in the end your car exceeds EPA MPG numbers.

 

[J. Bond]

insightfully, thanks! Have a follow-up on the first two and #4.

My question: “1. Multi-trip MPG Display? Is there any of showing the MPG for the last three or four trips, along with the miles driven for each?”

Your spot on reply: “If you have one of the trip meters reset for each drive, this would show the result summary you requested. ... Attachment 1 is example from @hasarad on infotainment screen...”

Bingo! That will do it. I haven't changed the Trip B setting as it lets me see what the car's overall mpg is, including the period of test drives at the dealer before I bought it. But I think I can dispense with that (I’ll simply write down the info) because seeing the miles and mpg for several trips would be useful.

Does the Honda app track this stuff? Say, showing both miles driven and mpg for each drive? That would be a cool feature and could be transferred into a spreadsheet.

——————————

My question: 2. How to Tell If CMBS Functioning?

How can I tell if the Collision Mitigation Brake System is working?

I knew that it comes back on each drive (never turned it off), but my concern is whether it's working the way it should. As I mentioned, it seems to barely function — and that only after I changed the distance to Long.

Will it come on if one is braking? Maybe that’s the difference from my experience test driving the Accord — I might not have been braking when it activated.

Also, it hasn't come on in the Insight at low speeds for me at all, not even a warning.

I'll have to check out that view you mentioned showing the distance, although I can see it myself! Does that correspond to the CMBS? Maybe I’m hopelessly confused and CMBS only come on at highway speeds in the Insight...

——————

Question 4: 4. Engine Algorithm Changed? Did Honda change the algorithms for when the gas engine kicks in?


Great reply: With Hondas being mass production, I'm pretty certain the same algorithm is used across a given model. Instead, perhaps factors like starting battery level, exterior temperature, or length of drive played a role in the different gas engine results that were observed during test drives -?

That is likely it; it could be that the LXs had longer test drives and the batteries were more fully charged and the car was in EV mode more. We'll have to go with that until some LX drivers or early buyers chime in and say that they don't know what all the noise about the noise is all about!

——————————

Thanks to everyone else who chimed in, too!​

 

[insightfully]

My question: “1. Multi-trip MPG Display? Is there any of showing the MPG for the last three or four trips, along with the miles driven for each?”
Does the Honda app track this stuff? Say, showing both miles driven and mpg for each drive? That would be a cool feature and could be transferred into a spreadsheet.

@andrew28 has more experience with it and could comment better than myself on the app. I think the app only displays "macro level" information for the car, rather than custom mpg recap (?). I personally stick to a drive log and offline spreadsheet; a bit old school, but it works for me.

My question: 2. How to Tell If CMBS Functioning?How can I tell if the Collision Mitigation Brake System is working?
I knew that it comes back on each drive (never turned it off), but my concern is whether it's working the way it should. [...] Will it come on if one is braking? [...] Also, it hasn't come on in the Insight at low speeds for me at all, not even a warning.

I'll have to check out that view you mentioned showing the distance, although I can see it myself! Does that correspond to the CMBS? Maybe I’m hopelessly confused and CMBS only come on at highway speeds in the Insight...

I'm not sure there's a way to verify CMBS is working as it should, other than relying on the malfunction checks which the car performs at start-up. Barring an error message (or turning it off via button/selection), I trust that CMBS is on.

The 'following distance' screen on the DII will show you how the car is calculating stopping distance, as it turns amber when it thinks you're too close. Since there aren't specific definitions for 'long' or 'short', I believe the setting adjusts CMBS response time (seconds) rather than a specific distance. This means that your stopping distance (and brake alert) will be triggered at different distances depending on speed. Perhaps this variation in stopping speed with distance is why you sense inconsistency in the brake alert (?).

See attachment for stopping distance illustration from ACC, which I think applies to CMBS as well. The time interval (seconds) are the same for a given selection (e.g. long, short), but the actual stopping distance differs depending on your driving speed.

 

[andrew28]

Does the Honda app track this stuff? Say, showing both miles driven and mpg for each drive? That would be a cool feature and could be transferred into a spreadsheet.

The Hondalink app only shows your odometer, oil life %, and the amount of fuel left. I deleted it since it's been bugging out CarPlay with iOS 13.


Your CMBS should be working if you're not seeing any error messages when you start the car. You can try blocking the radar & windshield camera with something as a test to see if a warning shows up asking you to clear the obstruction.

 

[hasarad]

Pulling MPG data into the Hondalink app shouldn't be that difficult, and it would be nice to have. The only issue I have seen with Hondalink is that, if connected via USB, the Hondalink app will not transfer any data - it works via Bluetooth only. I'm always connected via USB since I use Waze to determine when I'll get to work/home. This makes Hondalink irrelevant.