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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had a chance to test Toyota Safety Sense 2.0? Toyota’s equivalent of Honda Sensing.

I think I might test drive a Prius to see what it’s like compared to Honda Sensing.
 

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We bought our first Toyota earlier this year, a 2020 Corolla SE sedan. Not the greatest looking car, and hard to move to buying a Toyota after decades of Honda ownership - but the Safety Sense 2.0 features (and Toyota reliability) were the draws.

Haven't had "opportunity" (or emergency need) to test all the features yet, but pedestrian/bicycle detection is supposed to exceed Toyota's prior technology (TSS-C and TSS-P). "Dynamic Radar Cruise" is Toyota's version of Honda's Adaptive Cruise Control and seems to do a better job at low-speed follow and stop/re-start. The front radar is centered and higher positioned than the Insight, and my speculation is that this positioning is what makes it more effective (?). The other TSS 2.0 features (Pre-Collision Braking, Lane Departure Alert, Lane Tracing Assist, Auto High Beams, Road Sign Assist) seem comparable to Honda Sensing's offerings.

As asides (i.e. general gripes): The infotainment system is dash-mounted and obstructs driver view (in my opinion). It has CarPlay (new add) but does not yet include Android Auto. We upgraded to include blind spot monitoring and keyless ignition/entry, but there's no "walk away auto-lock" feature. The interior quality and interface feels more "basic" than the Insight. The rear seating and trunk areas are cramped compared to the Insight even with similar exterior dimensions. And the Owners Manual is ATROCIOUS compared to Honda's manual. Toyota provides very obscure, semi-functional descriptions and spans 8 different model types in a single manual; whereas Honda's manual is written for actual user understanding and conveys real knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I’m wondering what “Honda Sensingi 2.0” will look like.

I consider myself high mileage now since I’m over 75K miles (Use that number since a lot of motor oil companies will sell their high mileage full synthetic oil for cars over 75K) and I know there’s talk about Honda slipping in quality and reliability over the decade but there is also talk of it improving as well. From what I’ve experienced with my Insight up until this point, the gen 3 Insight could be a recent Honda model that will showcase that quality/reliability improvement.
 

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I’m wondering what “Honda Sensingi 2.0” will look like.

I consider myself high mileage now since I’m over 75K miles (Use that number since a lot of motor oil companies will sell their high mileage full synthetic oil for cars over 75K) and I know there’s talk about Honda slipping in quality and reliability over the decade but there is also talk of it improving as well. From what I’ve experienced with my Insight up until this point, the gen 3 Insight could be a recent Honda model that will showcase that quality/reliability improvement.
Honda previewed what "next generation" Honda Sensing will look like via the recent reveal of their 2nd EV in China. The upcoming improvements to Honda Sensing include better detection/recognition, prediction, and decision-making (AI) enabled by a wider front camera angle and 360-degree radar.

Radar quality and positioning seem key, which is what leads me to think Toyota's better (central) placement is what makes their Safety Sense more responsive/accurate.
 

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...The front radar is centered and higher positioned ....

Radar quality and positioning seem key, which is what leads me to think Toyota's better (central) placement is what makes their Safety Sense more responsive/accurate.
I agree the higher positioning of the radar transmitter would allow for greater accuracy of the horizontal distance between the front of the car and something in front of it. On the other hand where is the radar receiver located? If still close to the ground (as in the Insight), the higher positioning may decrease the strength of the radar return signal, requiring a stronger radar transmission signal.

A too strong radar transmission signal has potential to intertere with under the hood electronics, and without adequate shielding (and with 360 degree radius signal transmission) there is potential for that signal to pass through the heads of the driver and front seat passenger leading to heating of the gray matter in the head, headaches and god knows what else.
 

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I agree the higher positioning of the radar transmitter would allow for greater accuracy of the horizontal distance between the front of the car and something in front of it. On the other hand where is the radar receiver located? If still close to the ground (as in the Insight), the higher positioning may decrease the strength of the radar return signal, requiring a stronger radar transmission signal.
The radar for the Corolla SE (2.0L) is is at the front upper edge of the car and centered behind the emblem. It's roughly ~8 inches higher than the Insight's side-mounted radar position.
5998
 

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I think that 8 inches is a difference that, makes a difference! :)

With the receiver in the center of the vehicle, and hopefully with a minimum horizontal difference from the transmitter (located perhaps behind the inside rear view mirror?) I think this positioning of the radar transmitter and receiver decreases the transmit power needed, while strengthening the overall efficency and accuracy of the system as a whole.
 

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When I test drove this car it seemed to have the same problem the Insight had with not recognizing cars stopped at lights all the time. The Insight radar seems to work excellently when driving about except for the stopped car failure rate. I haven't heard anything better in this regards when it comes to Toyota. My Ford has a near 99% success rate in noticing stopped cars. In what ways have you found the Toyota radar system to be better than the Insight's Insightfully?
 

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Self-admittedly, I prefer 'regular cruise' as a consistent feature between cars and to feel more connected while driving, so I'm not an Adaptive/Dynamic Cruise Control aficionado...

But I felt the Corolla's system was better at lane centering and handling stop/go traffic at lower speeds. The Toyota system feels closer to being capable of self-driving, even though not advertised that way. That 'feeling' is supplemented in part with knowing Toyota enhanced their pedestrian/bicycle detection (which I've yet to tempt/test).

While "Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC)" (25-118 mph) is advertised as standard for TSS 2.0, Toyota also advertises "Full Speed-Range DRCC" (0-118 mph) on some models... and the car behaves as though it has this enhanced low-speed feature, even though it's not an upgrade I selected.

In contrast, I feel more comfortable using the Insight's system on open highways... if/when I use it. Most of the other safety system features seem comparable between the cars (e.g. lane departure alert, traffic sign detection). And both systems do still have technical limitations, such as (camera-related?) deviation due to lane markers at highway exits.

I'd say that this video of the Corolla in European traffic and highways is comparable to my low speed experience with TSS so far:
 

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Thanks for video.Yes a step toward the driver-less car.

Didn't like the driving style though. I see people drive that way. I call it speed up slow down rah rah rah. In heavy traffic the system accelerates quickly just to brake / slow down moments later. Wastes gas and adds to stress, impatience, etc. I prefer gentle acceleration, gentle braking, maintaining a steady if very low speed. This uses less gas and lowers driver stress.

I like the system though, but prefer its use for times that traffic is moving along, and not in a step and go mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think a good improvement to either technology would be to allow driver to adjust parameters such as slow acceleration or faster acceleration after braking, likewise with braking (softer or harder), although in some instances hard braking is necessary. Kind of like how we have the option to set car distance in ACC.
 

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I have driven probably more Toyota's with safety sense than anyone on this forum, but I do not own one. With that said, the one difference that stands out to me is Toyota has excellent speed based steering feel and has nice hefty steering weight at highway speeds, while the steering is light turning quickly in parking lots, possibly even lighter than the Insight. This is on their TNGA platform cars. Driver preferences vary when it comes to the driver assist systems so saying one is flat out better can be tough.
 

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I have driven probably more Toyota's with safety sense than anyone on this forum, but I do not own one. With that said, the one difference that stands out to me is Toyota has excellent speed based steering feel and has nice hefty steering weight at highway speeds, while the steering is light turning quickly in parking lots, possibly even lighter than the Insight. This is on their TNGA platform cars. Driver preferences vary when it comes to the driver assist systems so saying one is flat out better can be tough.
Which Toyota models have you driven? Based on your experience, do the reaction of features like speed response, steering weight, or safety systems differ depending on model?
 

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Toyota is rolling out its Toyota Safety Sense (TSS) 2.5+ upgrade, with the new 2021 Camry being the first to receive. New features include:
  • Enhanced bicycles and pedestrian in low-light conditions
  • Restabilizing help if the car swerves for crash avoidance.
  • Adaptive cruise control now follows preceding cars to a complete stop and resumes following it
 

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The 2021 Touring Accord is also getting some Honda Sense safety enhancements. I wish Honda would bring the Honda Sense package the 4th gen Fit got over here.

Honda has also added a new Low Speed Braking Control feature to Touring-trim Accords that can automatically apply the brakes to prevent low-speed collisions while Honda Sensing has been further refined to apparently deliver smoother slow-downs and more natural lane-keep behavior.
 

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The 2021 Touring Accord is also getting some Honda Sense safety enhancements. I wish Honda would bring the Honda Sense package the 4th gen Fit got over here.
The Low Speed Braking Control uses the standard/included parking sensors on the Touring. However, the 2021 Accord EX-L also gets standard parking sensors but does NOT get the Low Speed Braking Control. Honda is clearly metering out the safety features to associate it with their high-end trims, and it will take time for that to trickle down to be standard on all cars.
 
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