Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2019 Honda Insight EX
Joined
·
2,963 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Battery replacement cost can be mitigated as more hybrid/EV vehicles come into production and push down the cost of batteries.


I will most likely be selling the Insight before the battery warranty expires 10 years from now. Just waiting for more on street charging stations to make a EV viable for me.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Battery replacement cost can be mitigated as more hybrid/EV vehicles come into production and push down the cost of batteries.
A price drop would be welcome, but $4k average price is representative looking at the Prius growth/cost reference over time.

Worldwide cumulative Prius sales are significantly larger than the Insight: 1 million by May 2008, 2 million by Sep 2010, 3 million by Jun 2013, 6.1 million by Jan 2017. Even with this volume of vehicles/parts, the average price of battery replacement in the Toyota Prius (and other hybrid sedans) is ~$4.2k.

2001-2003 Toyota Prius (1st generation) - $3,649
2004-2009 Toyota Prius (2nd generation) - $3,939
2010-2011 Toyota Prius (3rd generation) - $4,080
2012-2015 Toyota Prius Liftback - $3,939
2012-2016 Toyota Prius V - $3,939
2012-2016 Toyota Prius C - $3,807
2007-2011 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892
2012-2015 Toyota Camry Hybrid - $4,892
2013-2015 Toyota Avalon Hybrid - $4,892
2006-2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,198
2011-2015 Toyota Highlander Hybrid - $6,353

On the plus side, there is a "core credit" of ~$1k that you get if/when the battery pack is recycled.
 

·
Super Moderator
2019 Honda Insight EX
Joined
·
2,963 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I thought the Prius batteries are under $2k by now... :sad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
High battery prices/installation is how they recoup the lost money from lack of maintenance and repairs in hybrid cars :plain:
 

·
Registered
2019 Honda Insight Touring
Joined
·
719 Posts
Most people buy reconditioned batteries with balanced cells when their batteries die on prius'. As an example I found a rebalanced battery for a gen 2 Prius for about $1200 with a $200 refund for the core when sent back. You could also get a gen 2 battery with gen 3 cells for an increased price. Install is time consuming but not overly hard. Not including the weight of the darn thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
It may seem expensive to some, but I like to think of the battery cost as furthered fuel savings.

I save roughly 300$ a month in fuel vs my truck. That's 3600$ a year, if the battery lasts 8 years, I've saved more than the cost of the car. So essentially if I keep the insight for 8 years, it's paid for itself and a battery replacement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Before I got my Insight LX, I had a 2005 Civic Hybrid with a 5-speed transmission. I was the only owner, and after 12 years of use, I had to replace the hybrid battery on it.
Cost me approximately $4800, and it was remanufactured, and only came with a three year warranty. It still had one year left on the warranty when I traded it in for my Insight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Before I got my Insight LX, I had a 2005 Civic Hybrid with a 5-speed transmission. I was the only owner, and after 12 years of use, I had to replace the hybrid battery on it.
Cost me approximately $4800, and it was remanufactured, and only came with a three year warranty. It still had one year left on the warranty when I traded it in for my Insight.
$4800 is an insane amount of money these days. The battery was 6 Amp-hr at 144V. That's 0.9 kWh. These days, Tesla batteries cost $100 per kWh. A model 3 Long Range, 75 kWh battery costs $7500 to manufacture (much higher at retail). My boss had a 2004 Civic hybrid with some bad cells, he never fixed it.

I hate to say, but isn't $4800 more than the value of the car at 12 years old? Wouldn't it have been more cost effective to just scrap the car?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
I hate to say, but isn't $4800 more than the value of the car at 12 years old? Wouldn't it have been more cost effective to just scrap the car?
KBB currently suggests (dealer/conservative) fair market range of $3.8-5.3k for a 12 year old (2007) Civic Hybrid in 'good' condition.

If this battery replacement was the only 'major maintenance' item for the Insight over 12 years, I'd be willing to invest in a new battery since I'd plan to keep the car for another 5-8 years. I've made similar maintenance 'investments' into my older Honda's because I value the older Honda engine standards and I keep my cars 'forever.'
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I have built a few LiFePO4 battery banks for my RV. When it comes time for a battery change I will rebuild it myself. That is assuming I still own the car when this happens. Although with the new Solid State batteries coming out I doubt the pack will be replaced with similar technology that it was built with. By then the newer technology should be widely available.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
I've been reading Prius forums that mention measuring cell performance and replacing cells as needed, rather than swapping out the whole battery. Is this similar to what you mean by rebuilding a HV battery? Is it more cost effective than whole-battery replacement, and will it last as long? Is cell balancing difficult, if cells are replaced vs whole battery?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
What what I've read on Priuses, attempting to swap individual cells merely delays the inevitable. As soon as a single cell falls out of range of the others, the system throws a code. Not sure how it works with the Insights though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Maybe the 4800 was steep, but I had it done by the dealer. Was hoping to keep the car longer, but it just kept getting more expensive for repairs.
Happy to have my new Insight!
 

·
Registered
2019 Honda Insight Touring
Joined
·
719 Posts
I've been reading Prius forums that mention measuring cell performance and replacing cells as needed, rather than swapping out the whole battery. Is this similar to what you mean by rebuilding a HV battery? Is it more cost effective than whole-battery replacement, and will it last as long? Is cell balancing difficult, if cells are replaced vs whole battery?
Most rebalanced batteries are like this and cost about 1200 with 200 given back once your old core is sent in. They usually have 1 to 3 year warranties. Since replacing with a new one costs 4 to 5g's and cars at this point have an average of 150,000 to 200,000 miles I believe taking a chance with rebalanced batteries is definitely the better way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
214 Posts
In my mind, if you got 200k out of the original battery, it makes more financial sense to just get rid of the car for a minimal amount rather then spend $1200-5000 to maybe get another 50-100k out of it. If you spend that money, you lose most of the money you saved on gas. Most cars will start requiring large expensive repairs past the 200k mark and the chance of being totaled from accident damage grows dramatically, making the car a money pit. Been there, done that.
I bought a 1997 Saturn SL1 with 180k for my business. Kept it for a year and got it up to 212k. While it saved a lot of wear and tear on my nicer car, it cost a lot to keep it on the road in repairs (I saved a lot thanks to my dad’s labor). At the end, it wouldn’t go over 70mph and was losing a quart of oil per 500 miles. I could have thrown a few thousand at it and got it running better, but for what reason..make myself feel good I limped it to 300k?? Once I realized I was spending a car payment a month in repairs, I traded it in on a much nicer car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
159 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2019 OWP Insight EX, 2021 PWP Insight EX
Joined
·
1,532 Posts
It's not really in demand right now. That's likely why the price is low. In ten years it would be way more.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
An interesting find. Way cheaper than I ever thought they would be.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-2020-...937263?hash=item2160eb0aef:g:ScEAAOSw8ZhdWrf7
Note that the eBay listing mentions "CELL" (not cells). Not sure how many cells are in that unit (maybe 12 based on the internal divisions?), but you'd likely need multiples (5 or more) to fully replace the HV battery pack since the Gen3 Insight has 60 cells.

The eBay seller currently has 2 of these listed for sale, with the same VIN listed for both listings (listing 1 and listing 2).

There's also some discussion on cell replacement and balancing above, and the net recommendation was that it wasn't a worthwhile or cost effective effort. - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/25118-post21.html

Battery aging is also a concern, as LowRider mentioned and discussed briefly in 'salvage parts from wrecked Insight.' A watchout is that batteries degrade even when not in use, losing 20% capacity after a year in storage. - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/5...0-salvage-oem-parts-wrecked-ex.html#post28016
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I think after the 150k mile hybrid battery warranty is up, I should start looking at Insight part outs and if I’m lucky, maybe I’ll find a low mileage Insight with good hybrid battery for say 1k or less.

it’s kind of a gamble though because you don’t know condition of battery but at least you know the car is low mileage ..

I would wager to say CA is biggest market in US for junk auto parts.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top