So you will have a reason to buy a 2020
HV Battery too small
When driving this car I just want to know. WHY couldn’t they put in a bigger battery in this car that will hold a charge longer. I’ve only got full charge a few times so far and it seems to run out so fast. Why not a bigger battery or maybe two batteries ?
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My guess is that there is a balance needed between battery capacity and charging ability. If we could store more, we would need to generate more. So the mpg gain might not be there with just a bigger battery?
It's not the size of the battery - it's the balance of use and reserve capacity to store extra charge. As Mr. Natural stated, a bigger battery would require more generation to fill it. The current battery is a good balance. You'd never want to purposely fill the battery as the energy used to do that is more than what you'd use to directly drive the wheels due to storage inefficiency/overhead (aside from hill descents). That said, the absolute sweetest spot on the power gauge is the white line between green and blue. If I have a choice between banking energy or being net neutral (without breaking the speed limit), I'll take net neutral every time.
With respect to reaching full charge, it's not something to purposely shoot for. The battery should be considered a reserve to dump excess energy for later use. The goal is to drive conservatively and anticipate in order to grab excess from hills and coasting. Braking costs energy as you spent it to get up to speed (aside from hills), so bleeding it off through braking is kind of like a foreign currency exchange you pay a fee to do so.
I larger battery would only make sense if the generator production was able to be increased.
This is a hybrid, not a pure electric vehicle. It doesn't require a monster battery (along with the weight that goes with it).
With respect to reaching full charge, it's not something to purposely shoot for. The battery should be considered a reserve to dump excess energy for later use. The goal is to drive conservatively and anticipate in order to grab excess from hills and coasting. Braking costs energy as you spent it to get up to speed (aside from hills), so bleeding it off through braking is kind of like a foreign currency exchange you pay a fee to do so.
I larger battery would only make sense if the generator production was able to be increased.
This is a hybrid, not a pure electric vehicle. It doesn't require a monster battery (along with the weight that goes with it).
I'd kill for an electric model of the insight. I'd have a better chance of finding plutonium than ever seeing Honda make an electric model of the insight.
You gotta believe! It'll happen. Maybe not this year - maybe not in 2020, but it'll happen! It also might not be called an Insight. It'll probably be a Clarity FE. Sure, it'll look like s**t, but it'll be full electric. Yeah, um, I'll stick with my Insight. The range anxiety thing still gets to me.I'd kill for an electric model of the insight. I'd have a better chance of finding plutonium than ever seeing Honda make an electric model of the insight.
So when the battery get low does the car acceleration get worse or just the engine gets louder? (Potential buyer curiosities)When driving this car I just want to know. WHY couldn’t they put in a bigger battery in this car that will hold a charge longer. I’ve only got full charge a few times so far and it seems to run out so fast. Why not a bigger battery or maybe two batteries ?
It's the same as far as I can tell. Not like my 08 civic hybrid where I was scared to make left hand turns.. The only difference is that you will hear the engine work harder when the battery is low.. It charges up pretty quick though.So when the battery get low does the car acceleration get worse or just the engine gets louder? (Potential buyer curiosities)
Test drive is probably the best way to get a sense for what it sounds like, and whether it's acceptable to you. The initial pages of this thread on 'Engine Noise' offers some helpful advice from @sleewa and others on intentionally using the high voltage battery down to 3-4 bars, so you can hear the gas engine run/rev to recharge the battery. The LiIon battery charges pretty quickly as @Mobilcams mentioned, but this would give you just a few-minute sense of the battery/ICE relationship and load.So when the battery get low does the car acceleration get worse or just the engine gets louder? (Potential buyer curiosities)
Additionally, hybrid driving is just different from traditional driving, if you're chasing mpg and efficiency. Hills and high speeds (>60 mph) will trigger the gas engine to run... so check that out as well during your test drive. There are some suggestions on hybrid mode and battery management in this 'Horrible Engine Roar' thread, but ultimately the gas engine runs the most if your normal drives include hills and highways. Note that the EPA highway mileage tests and ratings are based on 60 mph, so you'll see higher-than-expected mpg hit at highways speeds above this.
I know none of us want to void our warranties...
But within 3 years I'll be past that warranty.
I also wonder how difficult a mod would be to just add additional batteries. The stock battery is only 80lb. Adding a second one of the same wouldn't add much more weight. Frankly I get annoyed every time I get off the interstate and cap out my battery to 100% because then I know I am just wasting juice.
I suppose a better question I have is... WHY SUCH A SMALL BATTERY. I wouldn't even be looking into a larger battery if I didn't cap this one out a couple times per day. IIRC the battery is smaller than previous generations, and it's a bigger vehicle. We can barely go a mile on EV only. For local driving the small battery is fine, recharge/use, repeat. Longer commutes mean I recharge at speeds that EV isn't an option and fill that battery up. I run out of places to store those electrons and they get wasted. Does anybody have any 'Insight' about what the designers were planning?
Thanks!
Edit: grammar
But within 3 years I'll be past that warranty.
I also wonder how difficult a mod would be to just add additional batteries. The stock battery is only 80lb. Adding a second one of the same wouldn't add much more weight. Frankly I get annoyed every time I get off the interstate and cap out my battery to 100% because then I know I am just wasting juice.
I suppose a better question I have is... WHY SUCH A SMALL BATTERY. I wouldn't even be looking into a larger battery if I didn't cap this one out a couple times per day. IIRC the battery is smaller than previous generations, and it's a bigger vehicle. We can barely go a mile on EV only. For local driving the small battery is fine, recharge/use, repeat. Longer commutes mean I recharge at speeds that EV isn't an option and fill that battery up. I run out of places to store those electrons and they get wasted. Does anybody have any 'Insight' about what the designers were planning?
Thanks!
Edit: grammar
Here's what the progression of battery specs look like for the Insight. The Gen3 is the first Lithium Ion HV battery:I suppose a better question I have is... WHY SUCH A SMALL BATTERY. I wouldn't even be looking into a larger battery if I didn't cap this one out a couple times per day. IIRC the battery is smaller than previous generations, and it's a bigger vehicle. We can barely go a mile on EV only. For local driving the small battery is fine, recharge/use, repeat. Longer commutes mean I recharge at speeds that EV isn't an option and fill that battery up. I run out of places to store those electrons and they get wasted. Does anybody have any 'Insight' about what the designers were planning?
Gen 1 (ZE1) = 1999 - 2006 = NiMH | 144v output (120 cells @ 1.2v) | 6.5 Ah capacity
Gen 2a (ZE2) = 2009 - 2011 = NiMH | 100.8v output | 5.75 Ah capacity
Gen 2b (ZE3) = 2011 - 2014 = NiMH | 100.8v output | 5.75 Ah capacity
Gen 3 (ZE4) = 2019 - TBA = Li-Ion | 270v output (60 cells) | 1.1-1.2 kWh capacity
Gen 2a (ZE2) = 2009 - 2011 = NiMH | 100.8v output | 5.75 Ah capacity
Gen 2b (ZE3) = 2011 - 2014 = NiMH | 100.8v output | 5.75 Ah capacity
Gen 3 (ZE4) = 2019 - TBA = Li-Ion | 270v output (60 cells) | 1.1-1.2 kWh capacity
And the current Clarity (2016 to present) for comparison. Different design intent than Insight hybrid:
Clarity PHEV = Li-Ion | 17 kWh capacity (~14 kWh usable)
Clarity Electric = Li-Ion | 120 kW output | 25.5 kWh capacity
Clarity Fuel Cell = Li-Ion | 346v output | 103 kW capacity
Clarity Electric = Li-Ion | 120 kW output | 25.5 kWh capacity
Clarity Fuel Cell = Li-Ion | 346v output | 103 kW capacity
Here are a few threads with comments on the Insight's HV battery size so far:
HV Battery too Small - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/2...ging-batteries/2152-hv-battery-too-small.html
Reserve/Capacitor Idea - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/566-my-letter-honda/2444-almost-perfect.html
Insight vs Clarity Battery - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14490-post5.html
Reserve/Capacitor Idea - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/566-my-letter-honda/2444-almost-perfect.html
Insight vs Clarity Battery - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/14490-post5.html
The Insight does make you get hooked on EV driving. :wink: If you want a bigger battery you will need to look into a PHEV or BEV. I assume weight, safety, and cost vs benefit has to do with what size battery went inside the Insight. The battery is smaller than previous generation because it's under the rear seats instead of taking up trunk space.I know none of us want to void our warranties...
But within 3 years I'll be past that warranty.
I also wonder how difficult a mod would be to just add additional batteries. The stock battery is only 80lb. Adding a second one of the same wouldn't add much more weight. Frankly I get annoyed every time I get off the interstate and cap out my battery to 100% because then I know I am just wasting juice.
I suppose a better question I have is... WHY SUCH A SMALL BATTERY. I wouldn't even be looking into a larger battery if I didn't cap this one out a couple times per day. IIRC the battery is smaller than previous generations, and it's a bigger vehicle. We can barely go a mile on EV only. For local driving the small battery is fine, recharge/use, repeat. Longer commutes mean I recharge at speeds that EV isn't an option and fill that battery up. I run out of places to store those electrons and they get wasted. Does anybody have any 'Insight' about what the designers were planning?
Thanks!
Edit: grammar
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