[ScubaGuy]

CMBS uses both the radar and camera.

@insightfully Today, I got to really use my Insight on California Freeways and I was just blown away with Honda Sensing. I have had my 2019 Insight for 2-weeks, but all my driving has been in the City/Town where I live and my OD is at 221 miles and 55+ MPG and climbing. I have already experienced the incredible CMBS and it's prevented an accident already as a crazy driver cut into my lane and the car hit the Brakes before even I could react causing a bit of panic in my passenger who said, "Quick braking to avoid!" Which then I replied, "I didn't, the car did." So, I was just blown away on that example! I had read most of everyone's comments on Honda Sensing, but to experience ACC + LSF + LKAS on the freeway was a new experience for me. There was about 5 min where I didn't touch the wheel, and then only to have a hanging thumb to keep the warning indicator off. I cannot wait to take my Insight on the road to visit my sister 200 miles away, it's going to be a relaxing ride to say the least! :smile_big:

 

[richinsight21]

Here's brief run down of what happened: I was driving towards an intersection, I had the green light, and there was a car about 8 car lengths in front of me slowing down to turn right at the intersection, given my rate of speed (about 40 mph) and distance from the car I didn't need to slow down as the car would have completed the turn, however my insight detected the car, and the Brake warning flash on the dash, I didn't press the gas but kept on at the same clip and the insight braked hard, twice. Not enough to stop but I went down to maybe 10-15 mph. Anyone have this happen?

 

[insightfully]

Here's brief run down of what happened: I was driving towards an intersection, I had the green light, and there was a car about 8 car lengths in front of me slowing down to turn right at the intersection, given my rate of speed (about 40 mph) and distance from the car I didn't need to slow down as the car would have completed the turn, however my insight detected the car, and the Brake warning flash on the dash, I didn't press the gas but kept on at the same clip and the insight braked hard, twice. Not enough to stop but I went down to maybe 10-15 mph. Anyone have this happen?

Sounds like you experienced the Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS) kicking in. It's the part of Honda Sensing that provides "Brake" alert and reduces speed to minimize the severity of a potential collision. Aside from CMBS, the car can also slow itself while Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) is being used. Both CMBS and ACC use the combination of the millimeter wave radar (bottom right front) and front sensor camera (top of mid-windshield) to monitor conditions.

There have been instances where CMBS response has been too extreme due to false positive readings by the camera (e.g. shadows, potholes). There's an option to change the distance at which CMBS triggers, but no way to permanently turn off the CMBS option; it turns back on at the start of every drive.

 

[J0j0yum]

Were you on assistive cruise control? I found the car braking hard when I tried it. I don’t use it.

I’ve also had the car drop speed when getting on a freeway because of the way the lanes merged and it thought it was trying to avoid a collision.

Lesson learned is always be aware and hold on to the wheel at all times.

 

[J. Bond]

Plus, one never knows if the car signaling actually will turn!

So, it's a good thing to slow one down. I had the brake warning light come on as I approached a car stopped at a stop sign that was starting to make its turn. Just the warning, no actual braking.

But I felt that the Insight was right! I shouldn't have counted on the car to quickly make its turn (although they always do at that intersection — most people don't even come to a stop, and this car was already turning). But I should have slowed down more. I was only going about 15 mph, but I was closing faster than I should have been.

 

[richinsight21]

Plus, one never knows if the car signaling actually will turn!

So, it's a good thing to slow one down. I had the brake warning light come on as I approached a car stopped at a stop sign that was starting to make its turn. Just the warning, no actual braking.

But I felt that the Insight was right! I shouldn't have counted on the car to quickly make its turn (although they always do at that intersection — most people don't even come to a stop, and this car was already turning). But I should have slowed down more. I was only going about 15 mph, but I was closing faster than I should have been.

Yeah the car was half way thru the turn, which is why I maintained my speed, but the insight had it's own decision to make...oh well, it's kind of cool in a way. Smart cars avoiding each other, looking all around us, because we all know we are distracted drivers, whether it be the phone, the kids, or some other distraction...lol:smile:

 

[andrew28]

Plus, one never knows if the car signaling actually will turn!

So, it's a good thing to slow one down. I had the brake warning light come on as I approached a car stopped at a stop sign that was starting to make its turn. Just the warning, no actual braking.

But I felt that the Insight was right! I shouldn't have counted on the car to quickly make its turn (although they always do at that intersection — most people don't even come to a stop, and this car was already turning). But I should have slowed down more. I was only going about 15 mph, but I was closing faster than I should have been.

I had a close call a few years ago where I assumed wrong about a car signaling for a left turn. I was coming up behind him going 35mph while he was stopped ahead signaling to turn left. I assumed he would turn left quickly before the cars coming from the opposite side approaches. Instead he just sat there deciding to wait for the oncoming traffic to past. I had to do a quick soft brake and immediately lane change to the right to avoid him. Was lucky no car was taking up the right lane near me or I would had probably rear ended him. After that incident, I learned to just keep my distance, and to always prepare for early braking.

 

[Honda2019]

Here's brief run down of what happened: I was driving towards an intersection, I had the green light, and there was a car about 8 car lengths in front of me slowing down to turn right at the intersection, given my rate of speed (about 40 mph) and distance from the car I didn't need to slow down as the car would have completed the turn, however my insight detected the car, and the Brake warning flash on the dash, I didn't press the gas but kept on at the same clip and the insight braked hard, twice. Not enough to stop but I went down to maybe 10-15 mph. Anyone have this happen?

Exact same experience with my Insight once. startling at first but glad it happened and have adjusted my driving habits as a result.

 

[Mobilcams]

So my Insight decided I was going off the road tonight - no cruise set etc.. I was exiting off a freeway with construction.. I am familiar with the quick brake then release, however tonight it decided that I was going off the road and did NOT see my command to keep going as I smashed the accelerator down past the notch and caused my laptop bag to slide off the passenger seat into the floorboard of my passenger seat.. The only issue with the road was that the old lane markings weren't covered over well enough and I had to drive over them. I guess it decided that I went off the road and did a pretty forceful brake.. I have been watching this thread thinking - well it's safety and it's better to be safe than sorry.. Luckily my laptop was not damaged and life moves on, but this seriously needs to be dealt with..

 

[Honda2019]

So my Insight decided I was going off the road tonight - no cruise set etc.. I was exiting off a freeway with construction.. I am familiar with the quick brake then release, however tonight it decided that I was going off the road and did NOT see my command to keep going as I smashed the accelerator down past the notch and caused my laptop bag to slide off the passenger seat into the floorboard of my passenger seat.. The only issue with the road was that the old lane markings weren't covered over well enough and I had to drive over them. I guess it decided that I went off the road and did a pretty forceful brake.. I have been watching this thread thinking - well it's safety and it's better to be safe than sorry.. Luckily my laptop was not damaged and life moves on, but this seriously needs to be dealt with..

Your experience Mobilecams makes me feel that this is all a ploy by the automakers to make us get used to a transition to autonomous cars. At some point we will have to accept that cars and the highway/road infrastructure will be like those old toy car racing sets where you had a grooved track and the cars would zip around it while " into the track. Only cars of the future will be "driver-less" and rely on properly painted roads or roads with embedded "grooves" that will direct the cars around. Welcome to the future!

 

[Mobilcams]

Your experience Mobilecams makes me feel that this is all a ploy by the automakers to make us get used to a transition to autonomous cars. At some point we will have to accept that cars and the highway/road infrastructure will be like those old toy car racing sets where you had a grooved track and the cars would zip around it while " into the track. Only cars of the future will be "driver-less" and rely on properly painted roads or roads with embedded "grooves" that will direct the cars around. Welcome to the future!

Lol I can see it now. A bunch of automated cars brake checking each other causing a chain reaction that results in complete chaos with no one hitting anyone while the guy in the VW bug drives around everyone.

 

[andrew28]

So my Insight decided I was going off the road tonight - no cruise set etc.. I was exiting off a freeway with construction.. I am familiar with the quick brake then release, however tonight it decided that I was going off the road and did NOT see my command to keep going as I smashed the accelerator down past the notch and caused my laptop bag to slide off the passenger seat into the floorboard of my passenger seat.. The only issue with the road was that the old lane markings weren't covered over well enough and I had to drive over them. I guess it decided that I went off the road and did a pretty forceful brake.. I have been watching this thread thinking - well it's safety and it's better to be safe than sorry.. Luckily my laptop was not damaged and life moves on, but this seriously needs to be dealt with..

Yep, I had experienced something similar with roads under construction where the old lane markers weren't completely removed. My Insight didn't brake but road departure mitigation was activated trying to force me to stay in the old lane markers instead of the new one. Took me by surprise because I was driving with one hand on the wheel.

 

[Carfreak09]

Auto Emergency Braking definitely works!

I wasn't really looking to test this feature this early on but today I discovered just how quickly the system reacts. I was behind an F150 who was slowing down at a regular pace from 45mph, as was I. I briefly looked down when the beeping quickly got my attention. I looked back up and saw the truck had come to a sudden stop. I was already braking so I braked harder but the computer sensed I wasn't stopping quite fast enough, so I felt the brake pedal move closer to the floor on its own and suddenly the car was screeching to a halt and I was thrown forward. The car stopped on a dime, although the locking of the brakes was a bit surprising/dramatic. I believe I could have stopped fine on my own, without the dramatics, but it kept me from getting anywhere near the bumper so it did its job. Definitely a nice feature to have for moments of distraction.

 

[Mobilcams]

Interesting, I thought the emergency braking was done with the servo system? There are 2 master cylinders in our cars - unlike regular non hybrid Honda’s which do actually move the brake pedal. Maybe it opened the bypass valves to provide supplemental emergency braking to the servo unit?

http://hondanews.com/honda-automobiles/channels/fit-ev/videos/honda-fit-ev-electric-servo-brake

 

[insightfully]

Interesting, I thought the emergency braking was done with the servo system? There are 2 master cylinders in our cars - unlike regular non hybrid Honda’s which do actually move the brake pedal. Maybe it opened the bypass valves to provide supplemental emergency braking to the servo unit?

http://hondanews.com/honda-automobiles/channels/fit-ev/videos/honda-fit-ev-electric-servo-brake

Is an alternate link/page available? ^^This one comes up with error message...?

 

[insightfully]

Just curious, but is your "Forward Collision Warning Distance" which triggers CMBS set at the default/Normal, or on the Short or Long selection? Was the time to brake/stop what you'd expect, and would you keep your setting as is? With the CMBS applying brakes in false-positive situations like shadows/potholes, some forum members have changed the distance to Short, so I'm interested in your perspective.

One of my gripes with Honda Sensing is that the alerts on the drivers screen prompt you to look down and away from the road at a time when accident is most likely to occur. I'd like to see messaging (and mph speed) on a head-up display instead to help keep eyes on the road ahead. Currently, the Accord Touring is the lowest sedan trim offering the head-up feature.

Unlike most hypermilers, I only use the regen paddles sparingly, since the initial travel of the brake pedal is regenerative (until speeds below 5-10 mph). The G3 Insight is a bigger car than I'm used to driving, and I use the regen paddles more for additional braking power when I have a short distance to stop. Since I use it this way regularly, my reaction would have been to stomp on the brake and pull the regen paddles simultaneously for extra stopping power.

These snippets are from the 2019 Insight Press Kit for CMBS electro-servo braking:
- When the system determines a collision is possible with a detected vehicle, the integrated Forward Collision Warning (FCW) system's visual and audible alerts prompt the driver to take corrective actions. If the situation is not resolved, CMBS™ can apply different levels of autonomous braking action to help reduce vehicle speed and eventual collision forces, thereby helping reduce the severity of a collision if the driver doesn't take corrective action. The radar unit and camera work simultaneously and cooperatively to control the Electric Servo Brake system, which initiates any required braking.
- The electric servo braking system is fully hydraulic from the master cylinder all the way to the 4-wheel disc brakes, just like a traditional braking system. The key difference is that the braking function is electronically controlled rather than a purely mechanical activation, allowing regenerative braking from the electric drive motor to slow the vehicle, rather than the hydraulic friction brakes under many circumstances.
- When the driver applies the brake pedal, a signal is sent to the vehicle's Electronic Control Unit (ECU), which determines the appropriate amount of braking force to assign to regenerative braking through the electric drive motor and to the hydraulic friction braking system. In many light-to-moderate braking situations, friction braking is not needed until the vehicle speed drops below 5 mph, as the vehicle slows to a final stop. When the ECU determines that friction braking is needed, the dual hydraulic master cylinder pumps brake fluid through the system. Midway between the master cylinder and the calipers is a separate motorized electronic actuator. This actuator receives an electronic signal, generated in the master cylinder module that precisely defines how the driver has applied the brakes – soft or hard, slow or fast. The actuator then directly apportions hydraulic pressure to the brake calipers at each wheel. To maximize the Insight's accident-avoidance capabilities, the system delivers an extra-strong braking response when the driver increases the pedal force.

 

[Mobilcams]

Is an alternate link/page available? ^^This one comes up with error message...?

Sorry about that.

https://hondanews.com/honda-automob...deos/honda-fit-ev-electric-servo-brake-system

 

[Mobilcams]

I believe the servo unit does all the braking and the main master cylinder only opens the valves in the event of a power loss or servo failure. The diagram shows a pressure simulator that is used in place of brakes in order to feel genuine to the driver.

 

[Mobilcams]

Btw I know this is for a different vehicle but it’s the same brake system.

 

[Carfreak09]

Just curious, but is your "Forward Collision Warning Distance" which triggers CMBS set at the default/Normal, or on the Short or Long selection? Was the time to brake/stop what you'd expect, and would you keep your setting as is? With the CMBS applying brakes in false-positive situations like shadows/potholes, some forum members have changed the distance to Short, so I'm interested in your perspective.

One of my gripes with Honda Sensing is that the alerts on the drivers screen prompt you to look down and away from the road at a time when accident is most likely to occur. I'd like to see messaging (and mph speed) on a head-up display instead to help keep eyes on the road ahead. Currently, the Accord Touring is the lowest sedan trim offering the head-up feature.

Unlike most hypermilers, I only use the regen paddles sparingly, since the initial travel of the brake pedal is regenerative (until speeds below 5-10 mph). The G3 Insight is a bigger car than I'm used to driving, and I use the regen paddles more for additional braking power when I have a short distance to stop. Since I use it this way regularly, my reaction would have been to stomp on the brake and pull the regen paddles simultaneously for extra stopping power.

These snippets are from the 2019 Insight Press Kit for CMBS electro-servo braking:
- When the system determines a collision is possible with a detected vehicle, the integrated Forward Collision Warning (FCW) system's visual and audible alerts prompt the driver to take corrective actions. If the situation is not resolved, CMBS™ can apply different levels of autonomous braking action to help reduce vehicle speed and eventual collision forces, thereby helping reduce the severity of a collision if the driver doesn't take corrective action. The radar unit and camera work simultaneously and cooperatively to control the Electric Servo Brake system, which initiates any required braking.
- The electric servo braking system is fully hydraulic from the master cylinder all the way to the 4-wheel disc brakes, just like a traditional braking system. The key difference is that the braking function is electronically controlled rather than a purely mechanical activation, allowing regenerative braking from the electric drive motor to slow the vehicle, rather than the hydraulic friction brakes under many circumstances.
- When the driver applies the brake pedal, a signal is sent to the vehicle's Electronic Control Unit (ECU), which determines the appropriate amount of braking force to assign to regenerative braking through the electric drive motor and to the hydraulic friction braking system. In many light-to-moderate braking situations, friction braking is not needed until the vehicle speed drops below 5 mph, as the vehicle slows to a final stop. When the ECU determines that friction braking is needed, the dual hydraulic master cylinder pumps brake fluid through the system. Midway between the master cylinder and the calipers is a separate motorized electronic actuator. This actuator receives an electronic signal, generated in the master cylinder module that precisely defines how the driver has applied the brakes – soft or hard, slow or fast. The actuator then directly apportions hydraulic pressure to the brake calipers at each wheel. To maximize the Insight's accident-avoidance capabilities, the system delivers an extra-strong braking response when the driver increases the pedal force.

The Forward Collision Warning Distance was set to Normal and it stopped maybe 5 ft from the truck so I think it worked well and will leave it at that setting. Thanks for the braking info as I’ve been very curious how it works. The last sentence of your message exactly describes what I encountered. I suddenly increased the braking pressure when I realized how quickly I had gotten closer to the truck and it engaged max braking based on what the cam and radar was seeing. Set to Close, it may not have been as dramatic, but I’m glad to know it can overcome my stupidity when needed.