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My Second Biggest Gripe about the Insight (Brake Hold / Creep)

11K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  IronQQQ 
#1 · (Edited)
The car is in essence a serial hybrid. When one shifts into drive or Reverse, the car should not "creep" like an ICE car. It could act like a electric car. I can understand why Honda doesn't want to do this as most Insight drivers will be upgrading from an ICE car. However why not have an option to switch between creep mode and electric car mode? There's no need to drive the electric motor when there is no need for motion (driving the electric motor to create force when the brake is activated). It's unavoidable in a CVT/conventional auto trans coupled to an ICE, but for a serial hybrid like the Insight where the electric motor drives the wheels with no transmission, then the creep is pointless.

It's just software. Just update the software and allow that option in the menu.
 
#2 ·
Hey @IronQQQ, welcome to the forum!

If you activate brake hold it won’t creep if I’m understanding you correctly.

The Insight is a series hybrid but it will switch to a serial hybrid when it wants the gas engine to drive the wheels.
 
#4 ·
The car won't creep when brake hold is activated. One of the best features of the Insight is the button to activate the brake hold and it will stay activated until cancelled. I've driven Priuses and it doesn't have that really nice feature.

The Insight does switch to parallel hybrid, but remember it only does so at highway speeds around 65-70 mph, so whether it not creep mode is active or not is a moot point at that speed.
 
#3 ·
Also keep in mind it's sold as a hybrid to the average consumer. Having a lack of creep in the car would probably be a bit confusing and jarring to Joe blow consumer. Adding the feature in would probably cost 19cents a car and Honda couldn't even be bothered to add a conversion button to the digital speedometer so I doubt they'd spend the money. Love the car, but I'm beginning to dislike Honda the company a little. Just a little so far. 😜
 
#11 ·
I have a lot of gripes about the Insight... After exclusively owning Honda's for the last 24 years... This car has not impressed me much.

At first I thought the brake hold button was genius. I raved about it. Even my friends mighty 19 CRV touring did not have this feature and that car has the same Honda sensing (which I highly dislike.. I thinks it's much better on the Toyota)

First a review of two brake holds. In the Insight, once brake hold mode is activated, brake hold activates Everytime braking brings the car to a stop. Brilliant compared to an ice car where I usually pull on the hand brake or shift into neutral. I do this all the time in my Accord. I even shut off the engine at long stop lights.

Tesla brake hold activates by braking, coming to a complete stop and then stepping further down the brake pedal. At first I found this quite cumbersome as it needed additional motion beyond normal braking.

Now months into both Insight and the Model 3, I find Honda system cumbersome. First, I have to remember to turn it on. I often forget to turn it on and the car creeps away unexpectedly.

It's always on on the Tesla. It's just a matter of wanting to activate it by continued braking motion which is very natural extension of what you are doing already. It's not cumbersome anymore.

Second, you have to turn off brake hold in parking lots. you come to a complete stop to let someone pass or something... and the brake hold activates, but you can't just let go of the brake for the car to creep forward because brake hold mode is on. So you either have to turn off brake hold and act like an ice car which is the easiest... or press on the accelerator and then immediately switch your foot to brake because it acts like an ice car and will creep away. I find it cumbersome to deal with in these slow to stopped situations. It's better just to turn off brake hold... If you can remember.

Contrast that with the Tesla... With creep off (EV car behavior). You slow and activate brake hold by just braking down a little further.. and just nudge the accelerator to get the car moving again.. but since creep is off, the car doesn't run / creep away from you, so you don't need to switch back to the brake pedal until you need to completely stop again. It's really simple.

Again... I think Honda dumbed down the brake hold to make it seem more like an ice car. They should get rid of the brake hold button and have it activate by pressing the brake pedal more and just allow an option to completely disable / enable through the menu.

The Insight is kind of like an ice car sometimes and sometimes not. This really bugs me as it isn't the best marriage of both worlds.

They should make it act like an EV 100% of the time since the electric motor drives the wheels.

I rent a decent amount of cars and I've rented quite a few hybrids and I will put a 1000 miles on each car over a week each time. The 3rd gen Prius really frustrated me. The current 4th gen Prius is really great... Cept that it feels like driving a slug compared to the Insight. The Insight though it drives great, still really bugs me. It could be a lot better.
 
#12 ·
I find in some traffic situations that involve shorter times at stops but with frequent stops that using the ACC is better. In heavy traffic it stops the car for you and only takes a button press for the car to start moving again. I only use brake hold when in line for fast food or car washes where the wait times in between movement is longer. Try using your acc in traffic conditions. You might find the car less annoying for you.
 
#13 ·
I have to ask, is it really that hard to just hold the brake pedal for short stops?? Like Verdier, I’ve only used brake hold for traffic jams and long fast food lines. Otherwise, I see no use for it to hold the brakes for me and therefore consider the current button setup adequate. It’s exactly how my mom’s Hyundai Sonata operates as well.

I find the Insight to be the perfect marriage between ice and electric. No range anxiety but quiet operation and quick step off of an electric.
 
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#14 ·
Love the vision/aspiration of what the Insight could be... but the comparison to Tesla seems a bit apple/oranges, since the Insight wasn't designed for a fully electric experience (?). I think the Insight delivers a good balance for the hybrid that it is designed to be.

It seems you're pretty happy with your Tesla Model 3, but the comparison to the Insight is driving discontent. And from other posts, it sounds like the Insight will be the last Honda you buy.

Just curious, but other than looks - was there a reason you chose the Insight over other cars like the electric Honda Clarity, electric BMW i3, or even the Prius hybrid which are more suited for one-pedal driving and minimal creep?
 
#15 ·
I've had a long history with Hondas. I've actually only ever bought Honda's and I thought that some of them were amazing and at at the brink of cutting edge for their class. I've owned or stewardes 93 Accord, 96 Accord, 97 Accord Special Edition, 2005 Civic, 2013 Accord.

Integra GSRs with B18 engine, S2000, NSX 1st gen, H22 engine in Accord SiR/Prelude VTEC were really great innovative cars. Then the 2000s came and the accords were just boring until the 2013 which I thought to be spectacular. Aced the new frontal small overlap crash test, outstanding CVT, and 185 hp from a NA 2.5 liter... With 36-39 real world mpg. I was sold. Much better than Nissan and Mazda offerings. The standout 3rd gen two motor hybrid later appeared in the Accord but it was too pricey for me to dump my 2013.

At this point I've rented many hybrids... And they were all junk until the 4th gen Prius. The CMax and 3rd gen Prius were the worst. As a hybrid system, the Insights 3rd gen 2 motor is excellent.

I think the current gen accords are ugly... But I would have probably bought the hybrid EX with the same 3rg gen two motor hybrid if not for the Model 3 LR. Not really wanting the new Accord which is larger than my 13, the price was right as was the mpg so we bought the Insight after a friend bought one.

The 3rd gen two motor hybrid system is a standout but I feel the packaging of it into the Insight is meh. The Honda sense is not useful either. I rented a 4G Prius and drove it a 1000 miles over a week and though the I thought fuel economy was standout and the car had some really cool features but the car was boring to drive. Though I really like the Toyota sensing package. I passed on the Prius simply because of the cost, and the Prius Prime which is a bargain with incentives because bit was only a 4 seater and the stupid battery took up the trunk.

The Model 3 LR is double the cost of the Insight but I see every single feature the Insight has, has been bested. The Clarity looks like a patchwork of unfinished sheet metal. Honda is really not innovating but seems rather they are making compliance cars cause they think the future is hydrogen..... the i3 wouldn't fit my commute and neither of any of those 80-100 mile BEVs. I tried buying a Fit EV a few years ago on a shorter commute but couldn't secure a lease. The Clarity BEV costs like 36k.. which is absurd as you could by a superior Model 3 SR+ for $37k then. The same with a Bolt starting at $36.5k.. though GM has huge customer cash now.

At first I was ecstatic with the Insight and drove it all around. It was a step in the right direction... Quiet, electric AC, cool space saving buttons from the Clarity buttons instead of shifter... But certain things always irked me.. floor made of felt padding, a spare kit I can't buy even though the trunk fits one, a cluster of stuff surrounding me, the high center console, ridiculous low passenger seats, gaping panel gaps, silly Honda logo and sounds the car makes when you open the door, the ridiculous sound it makes when under 12 mph (Clarity makes it too.. yes I know it will be federally mandated but the sound could be better), the ridiculously thin sheet metal, useless LKAS ping pong, the tiny ill placed trunk button vs the large easily accessed gas door button, the throngs of useless configurable screens on the instrument panel, home is an actual hard button and not an LCD software button, the ridiculous sound it makes in Sport mode, no soft open damper on the glovebox, the noise cancellation that makes a hissing sound, inability to set the regen, and paddles??? Really.. it's a hybrid gas saver, not a electronic dual clutch tranny. If it was an i8 I would accept paddles but its a 50 mpg gas saver. Perhaps I shouldn't be so critical as the car is only $23k. My biggest complaint of the 13 Accord is that after 6 years Honda did nothing to fix the Bluetooth lag and $12 bottles of Honda CVT 2 fluid. No real complaints for that car, but I have so many Insight complaints.

I also did a lot of cost analysis too... The Model 3 SR was the winner in terms of cost due to incentives and charging at home but wife didn't want to share a Tesla with me.

Then I decided to buy the Model 3 Long Range for myself which was $12k more than what I had originally planned and charge that at work. When I picked up the car it was surreal... It was revolutionary. I have never liked a car so much. The 3 has numerous major quirks as well..... like road noise.... But the sum of the car is still a standout. The car is 2.5 months old. I have over 6k miles on it. The Insight is barely tipping 4k at 5 months. I actually need to drive the Insight more to lessen the miles on the 3. But then again, I've only spent $20 bucks to drive 6k miles.... I get most of energy for free from various sources. I don't get free gas for the Insight.

Every feature which I thought was great on the Insight I saw bested easily by the Model 3. Even the brake hold which I thought was silly on the 3, eventually I found superior to the Insight.

Honda compromised a lot to build the Insight and I find this to be it's fault. It's not going to beat the Prius, or the Ioniq, or any of the Toyota hybrids despite Honda's excellent mostly serial hybrid system. My opinion is that Honda should keep the hyrbid system but give it more EV like features and get rid of unecessary junk.

The 3 is simplistic and focuses on driving and not a flury of gauges, buttons and animations of the Insight. I like the 13 Accord as it's still simplistic... Just enough gauges and info and not overwhelming like today's cars. The regen on the 3 is just a straight line that swings between green and black. Is so simple yet effective... Compared to three step , 2 color gauge on the insight. My wife asked me the other day while I drove it, how do I know when the Insight is in regen and when is it motor only? After 5 months she doesn't know. I suggested to get rid of the busy gauges but she likes the animations even when she doesn't understand them.

What's the point of a EV mode when it's easily defeated by gas pedal, low battery or speed? Just get rid of it. The car tries to use battery as much as it can anyways. It's a copy of a Prius feature, a feel good option not needed. Why does there need to be EV, ECON and Sport buttons? Shouldn't there be a Normal button too? Can't those be menu settings? Simplify the cockpit and get rid of 3 buttons.

I finally set the very obscure power off auto parking brake in the Insight yesterday by listening to all the obscure beeps. Why not make that a menu option instead?

I think Honda needs to innovate more by simplification and by playing up the EV factor of it's serial hybrid. It's halfway there already.
 
#17 ·
The Tesla system sounds a little like the one on our Prius and Highlander in a way. The Toyota one can be activated for use in traffic with a harder push on the brake pedal and releases automatically and seamlessly when you push the accelerator. Great for when you are stopped on a hill and such. I find it much handier than the one on the Insight which I just leave off for traffic and only use it for parking when needed.

Comparing to Prius and Ioniq and other fuel efficient compact sedans, I still think Insight has a slight or significant edge in almost every area. Initial build quality being one where it seems to lag the competition. Dependability remains to be seen. There are also plenty of first year quirks and omissions that seem unusual for Honda, but I expect many of those will be resolved in the mid-cycle refresh, some perhaps intentionally left for a future update.

The only complaint that I notice every time I drive is the low seating. Seriously Honda, raise the suspension an inch so the front end can clear a typical curb and then raise the seats another inch. Yes, I know that will cost some highway mpg but it's a tradeoff I'd take any day. At least match the Prius for seating height.
 
#20 ·
I absolutely loved my '06 civic, 225,000 miles worth, and I have fallen in love with my Insight. It isn't perfect, and I have hills in my life, but overall I have to say I like it. Given the chance to swap it out for a Prius? My brother who has a Prius V is not so satisfied and I am. I don't have the money to dump and run but I'm happy with the Insight. If I had no financial restrictions, I would not have been in the market for a sub 30k car in the first place. I agree with BlueSerenity, possibly this is just not the car for you...
 
#21 ·
So I agree with folks when they say it's not good to compare the insight to a telsa....they are both in different leagues in my eyes. If I could afford a pure electric run, or a plug-in - maybe I would have gotten it. But because it was about 10k over my price range, I went with a hybrid.

Now my old boss owns a Telsa 3 (he had a Nissan Leaf before it) and I've been in a couple times. Lovely car and drives pretty nicely. He doesn't have to autopilot features because he didn't want to pay another 5k for them. Seems like thats a cheap thing Telsa did, since the car is capable of it. As an engineer the one thing that struck me about the Telsa was how different it was. You have to learn how to open the door, since its flush with the body. It's a whole different car you need to learn. So of course, I asked my old boss if he read the manual - to which he said no. So I read the Telsa 3 manual and found out an interesting thing...beyond the plethora of camera on the car pointing outwards...there is a camera pointing inwards that the manual states (will be used at a future time). So basically, Telsa could spy on your while your driving if they wanted to. I didn't drive it myself so can't comment on driving one...but it did seem cool. I didn't like the lack of gauges in front of you though.

My insight is my first hybrid. I actually lost a lot of features by going with the EX from my old car. I had a Ford Focus Titanium. I gave up leather seats, dual climate control, and sunroom. But I did that because I wanted bigger trunk space and better gas mileage...because thats why I'm getting a hybrid.

In short...I would expect a Telsa 3 to be better than an insight...because it costs a lot more than one. A fair comparison for the insight would be a the Prius or Ioniq.
 
#22 ·
“In some embodiments, the circuitry may be configured to execute a first level of customization in the vehicle based on the defined user preferences in the identified driver profile of the first occupant. For example, the electrically powered adjustable components, such as the driver seat, vehicle mirrors (e.g., the ORVM), front mirror, radio, music preferences, and driving mode preferences, may be adjusted in accordance with the user preferences in the driver profile of the first occupant. The circuitry may be configured to communicate a plurality of control signals to one or more other ECUs to initiate the adjustments in accordance with the user preferences in the driver profile of the first occupant.”
Tesla mentioned the interior camera will be use in the future to configure driver settings.


I came from a leased Ford Fusion Titanium and to also replace my old 09 Civic. I wanted a compact car again for better maneuverability and reliability like my Civic.
 
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