[Teedubb]

Yesterday while driving my brand new 2019 Insight with my family, I was braking on a downhill at about 25 MPH when the car suddenly lurched to an abrupt stop. The dash read "Power System Problem. Do Not Drive." The car had also put itself into park. This was accompanied by a burning smell.

Further messages displayed including "Emissions System Problem. See Your Dealer" and "Brake Hold System Problem. See Your Dealer." And there were more similar messages.

The car wouldn't go into drive but I was able to put the car into neutral and coast down the hill and then off of the road. To make matters worse, when the tow truck was pulling the car on to the flatbad the car was making an awful noise. The driver said the car was anticipating a collision (with the tow truck!)

We were lucky we were on a downhill and no one was behind us. At just over 50 miles, I sure wish I could take a mulligan on this purchase and start over with a different car.

If anyone has any ideas as to how I should handle this with the dealer I sure would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

 

[hasarad]

Yesterday while driving my brand new 2019 Insight with my family, I was braking on a downhill at about 25 MPH when the car suddenly lurched to an abrupt stop. The dash read "Power System Problem. Do Not Drive." The car had also put itself into park. This was accompanied by a burning smell.

Further messages displayed including "Emissions System Problem. See Your Dealer" and "Brake Hold System Problem. See Your Dealer." And there were more similar messages.

The car wouldn't go into drive but I was able to put the car into neutral and coast down the hill and then off of the road. To make matters worse, when the tow truck was pulling the car on to the flatbad the car was making an awful noise. The driver said the car was anticipating a collision (with the tow truck!)

We were lucky we were on a downhill and no one was behind us. At just over 50 miles, I sure wish I could take a mulligan on this purchase and start over with a different car.

If anyone has any ideas as to how I should handle this with the dealer I sure would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Frist, get a loaner car - they owe you that. Let the dealer find out what the problem is and take it from there. Yours is the first I've hear of with this issue.

With respect to the tow truck driver, he should have disabled CMBS if he thought that was the cause of the horrid noise. I hope he didn't do any further damage.

I'm curious to hear what the root cause of the failure is. Please let us know!

Don

 

[maynyrd150]

I'd just give them a chance to make it right. Maybe you could work out an extended warranty with them.
I'm curious if the burning smell was more of a hot brakes smell or a burned electronics smell? Could be tough to know if you haven't experienced much of either. Inside or outside? and from front or rear?
So was the car in neutral when being winched on the flatbed? If so maybe just the sound of the brakes resisting the winch of the tow truck which could include stick/slip howly-creeky noises.

 

[Teedubb]

My wife and I both agree that it was a "hot brakes" sort of smell, maybe from the front of the car.

The car was in neutral when it was being winched up and I would definitely describe the noise made as a "howly-creeky" sound. (Perfect description maynrd150). So yes I would say the brakes were resisting the winch - I'm thinking this can't be good.

The dealer has offered me a loaner and I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I learn more. Definitely don't think I'll be feeling very feel safe driving this car when/if I get it back.

Sure do appreciate your replies! Thank you.

 

[andrew28]

Yesterday while driving my brand new 2019 Insight with my family, I was braking on a downhill at about 25 MPH when the car suddenly lurched to an abrupt stop. The dash read "Power System Problem. Do Not Drive." The car had also put itself into park. This was accompanied by a burning smell.

Further messages displayed including "Emissions System Problem. See Your Dealer" and "Brake Hold System Problem. See Your Dealer." And there were more similar messages.

The car wouldn't go into drive but I was able to put the car into neutral and coast down the hill and then off of the road. To make matters worse, when the tow truck was pulling the car on to the flatbad the car was making an awful noise. The driver said the car was anticipating a collision (with the tow truck!)

We were lucky we were on a downhill and no one was behind us. At just over 50 miles, I sure wish I could take a mulligan on this purchase and start over with a different car.

If anyone has any ideas as to how I should handle this with the dealer I sure would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Good to hear you and your family are safe. I wonder if something got stuck in your brake system because I had that happen to me once in my previous car. I was going uphill fine and then when I was heading downhill my brakes started making a screeching sound similar to the video below.

Looking forward to hear how this is resolve for you and hope it isn't a malfunction with the car.

 

[maynyrd150]

This car does have a unconventional braking system that utilizes a servo to apply braking pressure when regen is no longer practical. Usually the brake pedal has direct connection to the piston that develops the hydraulic force, so there is little to go wrong. With the Insight, your pedal is only charging up a hydraulic accumulator, and the car decides how much of that stored energy is distributed to the brakes.

See this video (00:50): https://hondanews.com/honda-automobiles/channels/fit-ev/videos/honda-fit-ev-electric-servo-brake-system

I think you may have experienced a failure mode where the servo loses its position feedback or is given false information and defaults to a fully applied position. If that diagram is accurate, it would be more ideal if the servo defaulted to is fully opened position and the ECU opened the valves label 'MCV' and closed 'PFSV' to allow pedal pressure only to be applied to the brakes. Good engineering would have all these components be selected normally-open or normally-closed to fail into the safest system-wide mode. Maybe that is or is not what you experienced, but a semi-usable car at the end of it all would be safer and of greater use than one that needs a tow. That may also explain why the brakes still seemed to be applied while the car was being tugged by the tow winch.

Looking forward to hearing what the problem is.

 

[highmiler]

It might be a good idea to consult an independent shop to see what they say.
Compared to dealership tech's, they're more technical and hands on. Dealership guys don't learn much and are often taught to replace parts and/or run diagnostics.

 

[Teedubb]

That's an interesting point highmiler. I received a call from the service dept. late yesterday saying that they are looking to see if a "wire came loose."

 

[Teedubb]

I received a call from the dealer's service department. I'm told that the technician has put two days into the fix so far and that he's been in contact with Honda throughout. Apparently this is a brand new issue for them and they're seeing a new computer error code as well. A replacement computer module has been ordered and they expect to install it tomorrow, followed by an extensive, 20 mile test drive.

This all sounds good to me - especially knowing Honda is on board every step of the way. I've asked that they make sure the brakes are checked too.

I'll update when I get the car back. Looking forward to driving it again.

 

[Teedubb]

Happy to report that the car seems to be driving beautifully. I'm very pleased with the way the service department kept me informed on the status of the car and it appears that it all came down to a faulty computer module that was replaced. Thanks again for the advice passed along to me by members of this excellent forum. I'll be sure to follow up if there are any more problems.

 

[insightfully]

Happy to report that the car seems to be driving beautifully. I'm very pleased with the way the service department kept me informed on the status of the car and it appears that it all came down to a faulty computer module that was replaced. Thanks again for the advice passed along to me by members of this excellent forum. I'll be sure to follow up if there are any more problems.

For the computer module that was replaced, is that inside of the center head-unit display or is it located elsewhere?

 

[andrew28]

Happy to report that the car seems to be driving beautifully. I'm very pleased with the way the service department kept me informed on the status of the car and it appears that it all came down to a faulty computer module that was replaced. Thanks again for the advice passed along to me by members of this excellent forum. I'll be sure to follow up if there are any more problems.

In the past, when I did warranty repairs at the dealership, they still give you a receipt listing the replaced part. Would you be able to disclose the exact part that they replaced? I'm just curious how much that part would had cost if my car was out of warranty. Your dealership did a good job getting you back in your car quickly. Hope this is just a one off weird occurrence and looking forward to hear what your ownership experience is like down the road.:smile:

 

[Teedubb]

I'll be sure to follow up on these questions but I haven't received the paperwork from the finished work as of yet. I'll also ask where the module is located.

 

[Teedubb]

I just received the paperwork but unfortunately forgot to ask where the computer module is located in the car. The module is called an "SRS Unit" and it is part number 77960-TXM-A23. The car continues to run great with no problems.

 

[insightfully]

I just received the paperwork but unfortunately forgot to ask where the computer module is located in the car. The module is called an "SRS Unit" and it is part number 77960-TXM-A23. The car continues to run great with no problems.

SRS is "supplemental restraint system" which relates to components like air bags, impact sensors, inflation switches, and wiring. The replacement sounds related to this SRS Safety Recall bulletin from September 2018. The recall was communicated as affecting only 118 cars across Honda's Insight, Odyssey and Ridgeline models: https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/562-2019-honda-insight-recalls/488-another-recall-srs-module-but-only-few-cars.html

 

[Mr. Natural]

That recall bulletin has good instructions for removing the 12v battery!

 

[andrew28]

SRS is "supplemental restraint system" which relates to components like air bags, impact sensors, inflation switches, and wiring. The replacement sounds related to this SRS Safety Recall bulletin from September 2018. The recall was communicated as affecting only 118 cars across Honda's Insight, Odyssey and Ridgeline models: https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/562-2019-honda-insight-recalls/488-another-recall-srs-module-but-only-few-cars.html

A circuit board on the affected SRS Control Units may have been damaged during production. A damaged SRS Control Unit may not properly deploy the side, side curtain and knee airbags and seat belt pre-tensioners during a crash, increasing the risk of injury.

It's concerning that the SRS defect can lead to @Teedubb 's Insight to just become disabled on the road.

 

[hasarad]

SRS is "supplemental restraint system" which relates to components like air bags, impact sensors, inflation switches, and wiring. The replacement sounds related to this SRS Safety Recall bulletin from September 2018. The recall was communicated as affecting only 118 cars across Honda's Insight, Odyssey and Ridgeline models: https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/562-2019-honda-insight-recalls/488-another-recall-srs-module-but-only-few-cars.html

I can't see a SRS issue totally disabling the car. There must be more to it.

 

[Teedubb]

Wow. I'm so disappointed that the service department didn't tell me that they replaced the supplemental restraint system. Now that I know what SRS unit stands for, it looks like there is no mention at all that the computer module was replaced after all.

There is now an on-again off-again rattle in the area near the glove compartment. Looks like I'll be going back and will ask for more information. BTW, I looked up my VIN at the Honda recall site and it shows no open recalls. I wonder if that is because of the SRS was already replaced. Either way, very disappointing.

 

[gremal]

Wow. I'm so disappointed that the service department didn't tell me that they replaced the supplemental restraint system. Now that I know what SRS unit stands for, it looks like there is no mention at all that the computer module was replaced after all.

There is now an on-again off-again rattle in the area near the glove compartment. Looks like I'll be going back and will ask for more information. BTW, I looked up my VIN at the Honda recall site and it shows no open recalls. I wonder if that is because of the SRS was already replaced. Either way, very disappointing.

It could be an "innocent" mistake in the way the dealer chose to help you. Not quite the same, but analogous: I brought my MacBook to a repair shop because the keypad was unresponsive in the "e" and a couple adjacent keys. The shop ran diagnostics and saw that my battery was running low. They codified the repair as replacing the battery, as that replacement requires an all-new keypad, trackpad and related chassis top. (The shop saved me some money by coding it this way rather than a keypad replacement.)

Maybe the SRS replacement requires work to the computer module similar to the battery replacement in the MacBook requiring a lot of other replacement parts.