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I'm in Texas.

Thanks for sharing your receipt. Interesting to see they only charged $6 for the fluid. I'm guessing that's one 12 oz container.

That doesn't seem enough to do the two passes in the Insight procedure posted earlier in the thread.

Also, unless they're using pressure bleeding, it takes two people which doubles the labor cost. That being said, I would have expected about $130-$150.

Our other vehicle, a 2004 X5, took a full 32 oz can of Bosch 3-year DOT 5.1 last time I did a flush with my mechanic friend. We didn't do the optional ABS bleed using my Foxwell scanner. Maybe its brake lines have a significantly larger diameter?

In 2018, here's a post about prices from six dealers in California for a 2016 Civic EX, ranging from $120 to $170:


Do you think Massachusetts, especially the Boston area, is less expensive?
 

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2019 Honda Insight EX
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Do you think Massachusetts, especially the Boston area, is less expensive?
I never bothered to shop around to see what other Honda dealerships charge. I've been going to the same dealership for the past decade since I live 5 minutes away and the service cost was reasonable as far as dealership goes. A new owner did recently take over so maybe I will see a price increase next time... :confused:
 

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Swapping out the brake fluid is actually fairly easy for one person to do all by their lonesome.

Two of the large bottles, I am talking the 32 oz ones, of DOT 3 fluid. A clear hose and bucket. A jack, a 8 or 10 mm wrench depending on whatever these cars have, and patience. I would like to assume most people have most of this in their house, but maybe not. Anywho, their 90-190 you can do for under $20.

The only real thing to keep in mind is that brake fluid is the best paint stripper on the market.

Purely opinionated and possibly full of s*** side note, the brake system is a sealed system with nothing getting in or out. I am not so sure it ever really needs changed, but I am no scientist or engineer.
 

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Purely opinionated and possibly full of s*** side note, the brake system is a sealed system with nothing getting in or out. I am not so sure it ever really needs changed, but I am no scientist or engineer.
I have never flushed brake fluid on any car I've ever owned. My last car had some corrosion on the brake lines so flushing was just part of repairing the damage. But the car at that point was around 15 years old.
 

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Swapping out the brake fluid is actually fairly easy for one person to do all by their lonesome.
In my opinion, the best way for one person is to use a pressure bleeder from the top. It has the least chance of introducing air into the system. Just a little air in the brake hoses will significantly impede braking performance.

Purely opinionated and possibly full of s*** side note, the brake system is a sealed system with nothing getting in or out. I am not so sure it ever really needs changed, but I am no scientist or engineer.
Brake fluid performance does degrade over time. Not changing it can be dangerous to you, other drivers and pedestrians. One way you can tell it is getting old is the change in color of the brake fluid.

A quick search came up with this test:

But there is something that has been overlooked: the brakes themselves. But brakes are brakes, right?

Beginning late in the summer of 2007, Wheelbase Communications, in conjunction with Goodyear Tires, online tire/wheel store The Tire Rack and Italy-based Brembo Brakes, embarked on a set of tests (stopping distance from 60 mph to zero) that went everywhere but in a straight line.

We'll save the nitty-gritty of all that testing for the series we're working on, but there were several key findings that we believe can t wait since spreading the word could save lives.

So, after establishing a baseline stopping distance through repeated back-to-back stops until the distance became noticeably longer due to heat saturation, it was Brembo s suggestion to change the brake fluid and try again. Information on changing brake fluid is anecdotal at best, so we actually didn't expect any difference in our 9-year-old test truck, a 2000 Ford F150 Lightning SVT, especially since it was only ever summer driven and had just 27,000 miles on it.

The baseline testing began with a few stops in the 125-130-foot range. Once the brakes became heated, however, the distance dramatically increased to about 180 feet after about eight back-to-back tests. The interval between stops was about 35-60 seconds, the time required to reset the distance computer for the next run and then get back up to speed.

Once the fluid was changed, we were shocked to discover that although the initial braking distance was just slightly better than the baseline, even after 15 hard stops from 60 mph, the braking distance had only climbed to about 150 feet. Where the baseline after eight stops was 180 feet, with the new fluid the truck was hauling itself down in 140.

Wow.



 

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Two days ago, I did the brake fluid flush with a friend, who's a retired mechanic. It's about two weeks shy of the third anniversary of our purchase date, with 22.4k miles driven.

We did the procedure posted in the PDF above, without using the pressure bleeder. My friend is ill and I didn't want to risk complicating things, especially since there were two of us, so pumping the pedal wasn't a problem.

Edit: My main concern was the brake fluid cap on the Insight is held on by clips after a quarter turn. Our other vehicle has a regular screw top cap. With the pressure bleeder cap, I wasn't sure of the correct PSI for the Insight. Next time, I'll likely do the procedure myself and will use 10-15 psi. Another concern is whether using pressure works with the brake pedal feel simulator pass. After doing the procedure pumping the brake pedal, I think it will.

Some observations on the procedure:

1. The rubber bleeder caps are different on the front and back. The bleeder screws on both require a 10 mm wrench. Each wheel required between three and six cycles of pumping and bleeding on each pass. We used the Honda recommended sequence of driver front, passenger front, passenger rear, driver rear both times. You can make access easier on the front by using the steering wheel to point the wheels toward the side you are bleeding. It didn't seem to trigger power on mode during the second pass (the feel of the brake pedal felt normal, not artificial like in the first pass, see next point).

2. The pedal doesn't feel normal when pumping during the first pass with the car on. I'd say it feels lighter. This part flushes the brake pedal feel simulator section. Additionally, the fluid came out more slowly during the first pass. After turning the car off, we used a timer to countdown the three minutes recommended and left the driver's door open and the key fob out of range. You don't want to wake the car during the second pass.

3. We flushed with Bosch ESI-6 brake fluid. It is DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 compatible. Some Honda owners say feel is improved with this fluid. Only about half the quart can was used. You might be able to get away with just a pint of the Honda fluid, if you choose that solution.

4. We used a QuickJack 5000 TLX to lift the car. This made doing the two passes easier. A Milwaukee M12 Fuel 3/8 impact wrench with a 19mm socket to remove the lug nuts, with the car in the air. After putting them back on by hand, I used setting '2' on the wrench to tighten them in the air. They required up to a quarter turn more with the torque wrench, when back on the ground. If you're thinking about getting a QuickJack, you need the longer TLX model because of the long wheel-base of the Insight.

5. I was surprised with two passes that we didn't use more brake fluid.

Caution: Brake fluid is a very effective paint stripper and toxic. I used some from my last flush to remove "permanent" printing on PVC pipe. It worked quickly. Use gloves and disposable rags in the engine bay and at the wheels to prevent problems.


 

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Can anyone explain why we have to do this twice?

Also, the PDF talks about:
Bleed 1 (Between Tandem Motor Cylinder and Brake Caliper)
and
Bleed 2 (Between Pedal Feel Simulator and Brake Caliper)

Are the parenthesis the answer to my question?

Last question:
"Because brake fluid is replaced with the vehicle in the ON mode, the brake system indicator is turned on"
Is this while I am bleeding the brakes and the fluid gets a little "low"?

Thanks!
 

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1* ...Are the parenthesis the answer to my question?

2* "Because brake fluid is replaced with the vehicle in the ON mode, the brake system indicator is turned on"
Is this while I am bleeding the brakes and the fluid gets a little "low"?
1. Yes. There are two separate paths for the brake fluid. If you only did one of the passes, you wouldn't replace the fluid in one of the paths. It's important to wait the 3 minutes after the first pass and not close or open the door so the car shuts down into its sleep state. We put the key out of the car's range too.

2. When we did mine the brake fluid never got below the minimum line, so I don't think that's the reason. It could be that in the pass where the car is on it senses abnormal pedal pressure when pumping and releasing the pedal.
 

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1. Yes. There are two separate paths for the brake fluid. If you only did one of the passes, you wouldn't replace the fluid in one of the paths. It's important to wait the 3 minutes after the first pass and not close or open the door so the car shuts down into its sleep state. We put the key out of the car's range too.

2. When we did mine the brake fluid never got below the minimum line, so I don't think that's the reason. It could be that in the pass where the car is on it senses abnormal pedal pressure when pumping and releasing the pedal.
thanks!
Just to make sure. The first and second passes are exactly the same, bleeding from the same ports in each wheel. I am not drawing fluid from different locations on the wheels…
 

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thanks!
Just to make sure. The first and second passes are exactly the same, bleeding from the same ports in each wheel. I am not drawing fluid from different locations on the wheels…
Correct. There is only one bleed screw per wheel. Take care with the screws, the torque specs are only 8.4 N m front and 17 N m rear (first number in the boxes in the procedure diagrams). The rubber caps were slightly different on the front and back of our '19 EX.
 
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