Gen 3 Insight Forum banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Premium Member
2020 Honda Insight EX
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Got mine done yesterday and another recall had shown up that day. Had both installed...
  • NHTSA #20V-771 - Recall #X95 2018-20 Multi-Model BCM Program SW
  • NHTSA #PENDING - Recall #K9E 2020-21 Multi-Model DC-DC Converter
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Got mine done yesterday and another recall had shown up that day. Had both installed...
  • NHTSA #20V-771 - Recall #X95 2018-20 Multi-Model BCM Program SW
  • NHTSA #PENDING - Recall #K9E 2020-21 Multi-Model DC-DC Converter
Wow, if they already had something ready to install, it means it's definitely coming but hasn't been publicly announced. Nutty that there are THIS many recalls on a Honda. Definitely more than I've ever experienced in prior Honda ownership.

There isn't anything published yet on "Recall K9E" - but I'd expect it to show up first/earliest via CarFax notification (versus Honda) given prior track record. Will be interesting to see if there's any relation to prior DC-DC Converter issues from prior Honda Civic Hybrid, and why this issue is only flagged on 20/21 models (vs 2019).
 

·
Super Moderator
2019 Honda Insight EX
Joined
·
3,067 Posts
Model - Dates of Manufacture
Honda Insight 2020 10/21/2019 to 05/13/2020
Honda Insight 2021 05/18/2020 to 06/01/2020

Only certain vehicles with a power converter unit (PCU) installed that contains transistors with a high concentration of dopant injections are included in the recall. Similar vehicles not included in the recall had PCUs installed that contain transistors with an appropriate concentration of dopant injections.

Percentage of affected vehicles that contain the defect: 2%

Honda launched investigations in the U.S. and several global markets that received reports of DC-DC converter failure. The supplier’s assembly processes were evaluated, and Honda found that there were no specifications for the application of dopant injections to the transistors on the DC-DC converter. The supplier began monitoring for high concentrations of dopant injections in the transistors, which Honda identified to be the cause of the increased voltage in the DC-DC converter in low ambient temperatures. The increased voltage inadvertently activated a test circuit only used during vehicle manufacturing, which amplified the DC-DC converter voltage output. Voltage output above the system’s threshold could result in over voltage and shut down the DC-DC converter.

Honda examined the multitude of scenarios potentially occurring due to DC-DC converter failure and the inability to recharge the 12-volt battery. The failure mode was also confirmed during re-creation testing in different hybrid electric vehicle models installed with the same PCU and DC-DC converter.

Honda determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed and decided to conduct a safety recall. As of December 10, 2020, Honda has received 53 warranty claims, 65 field reports, and no reports of crashes or injuries related to this issue.


The dealer will update the PCU software program for free. Software update is available as of December 17, 2020.

 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
OMGGGG, Honda... GET IT TOGETHER!

This is officially the first Honda model I've owned with the most unnecessary recalls. This latest PCU one makes for 5 total; my prior Hondas only had 2 minor recalls (floor mat and SRS flap):
  • #5 - RECALL, 12/17/20: 2020-2021 DC-to-DC Converter PCU Software Update
  • #4 - RECALL, 12/10/20: 2019-2020 Insight BCM Software Malfunction
  • #3 - RECALL, 5/29/20, 2019-20 Insight Fuel Pump Motor
  • #2 - RECALL, 9/27/18: 2019 SRS Module, but only a few cars!
  • #1 - RECALL, 9/13/18: 2019 Rear Camera Software
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
The dealer will update the PCU software program for free. Software update is available as of December 17, 2020.

In addition to the above Honda announcement and NHTSA letter, some additional detail posted on the PCU Software recall:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Model - Dates of Manufacture
Honda Insight 2020 10/21/2019 to 05/13/2020
Honda Insight 2021 05/18/2020 to 06/01/2020

Only certain vehicles with a power converter unit (PCU) installed that contains transistors with a high concentration of dopant injections are included in the recall. Similar vehicles not included in the recall had PCUs installed that contain transistors with an appropriate concentration of dopant injections.

Percentage of affected vehicles that contain the defect: 2%

Honda launched investigations in the U.S. and several global markets that received reports of DC-DC converter failure. The supplier’s assembly processes were evaluated, and Honda found that there were no specifications for the application of dopant injections to the transistors on the DC-DC converter. The supplier began monitoring for high concentrations of dopant injections in the transistors, which Honda identified to be the cause of the increased voltage in the DC-DC converter in low ambient temperatures. The increased voltage inadvertently activated a test circuit only used during vehicle manufacturing, which amplified the DC-DC converter voltage output. Voltage output above the system’s threshold could result in over voltage and shut down the DC-DC converter.

Honda examined the multitude of scenarios potentially occurring due to DC-DC converter failure and the inability to recharge the 12-volt battery. The failure mode was also confirmed during re-creation testing in different hybrid electric vehicle models installed with the same PCU and DC-DC converter.

Honda determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed and decided to conduct a safety recall. As of December 10, 2020, Honda has received 53 warranty claims, 65 field reports, and no reports of crashes or injuries related to this issue.


The dealer will update the PCU software program for free. Software update is available as of December 17, 2020.

I don't understand. If the problem is defective transistors in the PCU, shouldn't Honda have to replace the PCU - or at least whatever component(s) that contain(s) the defective transistors? This sounds like they are doing a software programming kludge to ignore a potential fault condition caused by a hardware defect. What am I missing here?

2020 Insight Touring
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
I don't understand. If the problem is defective transistors in the PCU, shouldn't Honda have to replace the PCU - or at least whatever component(s) that contain(s) the defective transistors? This sounds like they are doing a software programming kludge to ignore a potential fault condition caused by a hardware defect. What am I missing here?
I think you're totally right... Honda has identified a physical defect in how the transistors were produced, but (assuming transistor replacement is out of Honda tech scope) full replacement of the 2020 Insight PCU assembly (part #1B000-6L2-A21) would cost $5k at MSRP per car.

Honda claims to have identified the charging issue occurs in isolated conditions (i.e. cold weather activates a test circuit intended only for manufacturing use, which puts DC Converter voltage above acceptable threshold and causes converter to shut down). It seems the software update is a 'fix' intended to bypass this from occurring. It's the cheapest / easiest repair Honda thinks will work.

Somewhat ironically (?), Honda also claimed the the turbo/oil dilution issue on GenX Civics was related to cold weather, and their 'fix' was also a software update to change engine warm-up conditions. But affected Civic and CR-V owners also got an extra year of powertrain coverage (to 6 years vs 5 years).

Honda also used a 'minimum fix' approach for power window switches on the 2002-2006 CR-V in 2012, but is now doing a second recall in 2020 to replace the still-faulty switches which are a fire risk. But being 14-18 years later, the number of these affected cars still on the road is much lower and the cost for Honda to replace will be much less.

In the end, it's Honda trying to manage to manage their cost and risk. Hopefully their troubleshooting on the Insight PCU is correct and other issues don't surface as with the 2002-2006 CR-V...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
... And why is Honda waiting 2 months to notify owners? Why is NHTSA allowing this to be a "voluntary" recall that doesn't fix the actual defect and doesn't require immediate notification to owners? The recall says this is a safety issue that can result in a crash, doesn't it? Is it because they don't have any reports yet of deaths? How many deaths does it take before NHTSA would require a real recall?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
... And why is Honda waiting 2 months to notify owners? Why is NHTSA allowing this to be a "voluntary" recall that doesn't fix the actual defect and doesn't require immediate notification to owners? The recall says this is a safety issue that can result in a crash, doesn't it? Is it because they don't have any reports yet of deaths? How many deaths does it take before NHTSA would require a real recall?
Another good point... but seems like a time allowance the NHTSA deems 'acceptable' for manufacturers to prep for executing the repairs. Similar 2-month time lag applied to the recent fuel pump recall (announced to NHTSA in May, owner notifications in July).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Hey all! My 2020 Insight Touring is effected by this recall. I have both the BCM and DC-DC recall repairs scheduled with the dealer next weekend.... Back story... we got 8" of snow for a white Christmas... I went out yesterday to start my car to clean the snow off and preheat... car remote started for about 10 seconds then shut off...oh boy.. Come to find out the 12V battery is "critically low" do not drive error message on the dash... So being at my in-laws and not having my hobby charger to charge the AGM battery I stopped and started the engine with heat on and off for about 30 times and finally got the error message to go away. Almost got stranded at my in-laws...which definitely wouldn't have been a problem but pissed Honda hasn't taken care of this yet... I believe my AGM battery is degraded due to this issue and next time its cold out I know I'm going to get the same error message and I won't be able to drive... How likely is it that Honda will also replace my AGM battery as part of this warranty? I'm 99% certain that the battery is due to the recall...I purchased my vehicle in Nov 2019... it's just over 1 yr old... I shouldn't have an AGM battery issue 1 year into ownership...
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
I stopped and started the engine with heat on and off for about 30 times and finally got the error message to go away.
Did the "do not drive" messages continue to appear while you tried this? Did the engine shut off 30 times, or were you actively cycling it on and off?

How likely is it that Honda will also replace my AGM battery as part of this warranty? I'm 99% certain that the battery is due to the recall...I purchased my vehicle in Nov 2019... it's just over 1 yr old... I shouldn't have an AGM battery issue 1 year into ownership...
It's worth asking and having your 12V battery tested. It would likely fall under base warranty rather than part of the recall though. Honda's base warranty lists the following conditions for replacement (vs original) 12V batteries:
6246
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Did the "do not drive" messages continue to appear while you tried this? Did the engine shut off 30 times, or were you actively cycling it on and off?


It's worth asking and having your 12V battery tested. It would likely fall under base warranty rather than part of the recall though. Honda's base warranty lists the following conditions for replacement (vs original) 12V batteries:
View attachment 6246
Thank you! I'll be sure to provide this to the dealer if they have problems.... the only thing I foresee as debatable is the "defective"...define defective? Is there a threshold CCA or resting voltage that would qualify the battery as defective?
Yes, I absolutely received the DO NOT DRIVE warning... I couldn't remote start the car because it would turn on the heater. I also couldn't manually turn on the vehicle WITH the heat on or else it'd automatically shut off. What I had to do was manually cycle it a bunch of times with the heat OFF till it got to a point where the battery was high enough to not trip the warning then I started the heat on the lowest setting and moved upward from there... I think from now on I'll always carry my hobby charger with me in the car since it'll charge the AGM battery at a slow enough amperage that it won't cause damage if I ever encounter this again....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
Honda would not replace the battery due to not receiving any error messages at the time I brought the car in... I said it would die again in cold and which they responded call the number on the door window to get a tow...great thanks... They also said record the error with my phone when it happens again...thanks. I'll keep the hobby charger in my car from now on just in-case.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
4,838 Posts
Honda would not replace the battery due to not receiving any error messages at the time I brought the car in... I said it would die again in cold and which they responded call the number on the door window to get a tow...great thanks... They also said record the error with my phone when it happens again...thanks. I'll keep the hobby charger in my car from now on just in-case.
Did they at least test the 12V battery, and provide the results? Or did they not do this because there were no error messages?
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top