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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)


Honda's sales are down in September versus August, for which Honda cites "fewer sales days." 30-days versus 31 days doesn't seem like a big difference, but maybe some of the (pre)Labor day sales were included in August rather than September.

The Insight is holding steady at ~40% (38%) of Honda's total 'electrified' sales.

Clarity sales are dropping steadily monthly (-40% vs August), related to Honda's decision to carry inventory in California only. - https://www.torquenews.com/1083/falling-first-place-honda-clarity-sales-drop-also-ran-status

Though not directly reported, I'd estimate from their total sales that the Accord Hybrid sold <2k units (1923), which is down 25% from August.
 

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It's been awhile since the Insight sold less than 2,000 in a month. January and February were the only times this year it has sold lower than 2,000. September overall looks like it was a bad month for Honda(people waiting for 2020 model year changes?).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It's been awhile since the Insight sold less than 2,000 in a month. January and February were the only times this year it has sold lower than 2,000. September overall looks like it was a bad month for Honda(people waiting for 2020 model year changes?).
You make an interesting point. Sales for the quarter (JAS19) are up 3% versus last year (JAS18), but sales for Aug/Sep were flat versus last year.
 

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I found this chart comparing Honda to the other automakers.



I'm surprised Mazda sells so little considering they have nice looking and fun to drive cars. I even considered waiting for the 2019 Mazda3 when I was shopping for a new car. Are they not reliable cars(never got the chance to own one)?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I'm surprised Mazda sells so little considering they have nice looking and fun to drive cars. I even considered waiting for the 2019 Mazda3 when I was shopping for a new car. Are they not reliable cars(never got the chance to own one)?
It depends on the survey/source... but J.D. Power ranks Mazda's reliability below average and in the bottom half or the ratings, grouped with GMC, Cadillac, and Jeep. Mazdas are fun to drive, but I ruled them out because I wanted to buy/own a car that would last the long haul. Yet Honda is only marginally better than Mazda, and below industry average per the same ranking.

This rating is measured as "problems experienced per 100 vehicles" over the last 12 months by original owners of three-year-old model-year vehicles.



In contrast, Consumer Reports Reliability Ranking for 2019 is as follows, based on subscriber listing of complaints - with Mazda grouped with Lexus and Toyota, while Honda is grouped in the middle:
1. Lexus
2. Toyota
3. Mazda
4. Subaru
5. Kia
6. Infiniti
7. Audi
8. BMW
9. Mini
10. Hyundai
11. Porsche
12. Genesis
13. Acura
14. Nissan
15. Honda
16. Volkswagen
17. Mercedes-Benz
18. Ford
19. Buick
20. Lincoln
21. Dodge
22. Jeep
23. Chevrolet
24. Chrysler
25. GMC
26. Ram
27. Tesla
28. Cadillac
29. Volvo​
 

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I don't trust JD Power cause they're known to give out awards to whoever pays them. Consumer Reports doesn't really give much information on how they came up with the results. Did they average out the complaints so automakers that sold more vehicles didn't get more complaints? Is a complaint a legit issue or user error?

I decided to check owner reviews on edmunds for the Mazda 3 going back to 2015. They all have overall pretty good ratings.
2019 (4.4, 16 reviews)
2018 (4.6, 43 reviews)
2017 (4.6, 38 reviews)
2016 (4.4, 101 reviews)
2015 (4.7, 63 reviews)


2019 Honda Insight (4.4, 88 reviews)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I tend to favor longer-term data over initial model ratings. The Insight is the first car I've bought without long/direct history, so the brand's overall reputation was important and Honda's history was better than Mazda's (even though Honda has fallen in ratings over the past 3-5 years).

Another annual reliability ranking (Dec annually) comes from CarMD called "least likely to have check engine light come on." Honda made the list, while Mazda was out of the top 10.
1. Toyota
2. Acura
3. Hyundai
4. Honda
5. Mitsubishi
6. Subaru
7. Buick
8. Mercedes-Benz
9. Lexus
10. Nissan

In the UK (somewhat apples/oranges, but can represent a brand's overall/global strength), there's a Reliability Index backed by warranty data (Warranty Direct). For brands also sold in the US, Honda ranks best, then Toyota, and Mazda.

It's all a bit of a gamble by brand, model, and even individual car, but for now #InHondaWeTrust ;)
 

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Wow.. look at that.. Acura beating out Lexus by far..

As for Insight car sales, I for one love the rare care factor.. feels like being in an s2000 again where i actually get looks on the road. Maybe it’s because i still have the dealer temporary plate on?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm surprised Mazda sells so little considering they have nice looking and fun to drive cars. I even considered waiting for the 2019 Mazda3 when I was shopping for a new car. Are they not reliable cars(never got the chance to own one)?
Interesting articles on the decline of the Mazda 3 (and the overall brand) despite 2018 redesign and despite the growth of the Civic and Corolla. 2019 sales for the Mazda 3 are the lowest since 2003 (15 years). To win back consumers, the Mazda 3 will become more premium (and more expensive) in 2020. The brand overall is trying to sell and be perceived as premium (think Acura). Mazda calls the 2018 / Gen7 Mazda 3 the brand's first attempt at going premium... and it's not going over well.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/09/the-new-mazda-3-is-tanking-can-more-equipment-and-a-higher-base-price-change-that-in-2020/
https://www.autonews.com/sales/mazdas-complicated-journey-premium

 

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I wonder if they will survive long enough to transition to a premium brand. The sales results look really bad for a mainstream brand. Sticking with Honda probably saved me from making a bad decision...



 

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Discussion Starter #11
As for Insight car sales, I for one love the rare care factor.. feels like being in an s2000 again where i actually get looks on the road. Maybe it’s because i still have the dealer temporary plate on?
I think the car is pretty eye-catching, with or without the temporary plates. :) I just want enough of this model to sell that maintenance support stays easy/known, and parts remain affordable/available.
 

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I think the car is pretty eye-catching, with or without the temporary plates. :) I just want enough of this model to sell that maintenance support stays easy/known, and parts remain affordable/available.
With the exception of the exterior front and rear. I feel like majority of the parts are shared between the Civic and Accord Hybrid.
 

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It depends on the survey/source... but J.D. Power ranks Mazda's reliability below average and in the bottom half or the ratings, grouped with GMC, Cadillac, and Jeep. Mazdas are fun to drive, but I ruled them out because I wanted to buy/own a car that would last the long haul. Yet Honda is only marginally better than Mazda, and below industry average per the same ranking.

This rating is measured as "problems experienced per 100 vehicles" over the last 12 months by original owners of three-year-old model-year vehicles.



In contrast, Consumer Reports Reliability Ranking for 2019 is as follows, based on subscriber listing of complaints - with Mazda grouped with Lexus and Toyota, while Honda is grouped in the middle:
1. Lexus
2. Toyota
3. Mazda
4. Subaru
5. Kia
6. Infiniti
7. Audi
8. BMW
9. Mini
10. Hyundai
11. Porsche
12. Genesis
13. Acura
14. Nissan
15. Honda
16. Volkswagen
17. Mercedes-Benz
18. Ford
19. Buick
20. Lincoln
21. Dodge
22. Jeep
23. Chevrolet
24. Chrysler
25. GMC
26. Ram
27. Tesla
28. Cadillac
29. Volvo​
I would highly doubt in any report that mentions Ford and Chrysler are more reliable than Honda
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I would highly doubt in any report that mentions Ford and Chrysler are more reliable than Honda
The listing is based on (any/all) issues reported by manufacturer, electrical/technology and mechanical combined. I think it reflects Honda getting ding'd for their technology glitches because they aren't very responsive to resolve them.
 

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I wonder if they will survive long enough to transition to a premium brand. The sales results look really bad for a mainstream brand. Sticking with Honda probably saved me from making a bad decision]
Mazda’s are reliable cars, about on par with Honda. I’ve owned 2 RX-7s and a Miata and they were all great cars. What’s hurting them is trying to convey a more “premium” feel and charging for it. The new 3 is substantially more expensive then the last model and people aren’t convinced the Mazda name is worth that price. The 3 competes with the Civic but fully equipped a 3 exceeds $30k! I feel they made a huge mistake here. They have beautiful high quality interiors but it’s not worth $28-30k for a compact economy car. I actually cross shopped the Insight with the 3 hatchback. The Mazda dealer was totally unwilling to deal much on price whereas Honda was willing. The awesome mileage on the Insight sealed the deal for me.
 

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I would highly doubt in any report that mentions Ford and Chrysler are more reliable than Honda
Well I know it's purely subjective, but I've had both "Chrysler" and GM vehicles up near the the 300k mark with minimal maintenance. It's purely a crap shoot though, with any manufacturer and owner. It depends on how pervasive a problem is, and how "complaint-prone" an owner is.

I know a guy that has spent over 10 grand on his '03 Tacoma over the past 3 years, only to go replace it recently with a newer one. He was at ~220k miles. Compared to my Colorado, I had ~800$ in repairs during the same time frame (I did the labor), and I traded it in at 285k miles.

To date, highest mileage vehicle I've owned, a 98 dodge neon with 318k miles. Highest mileage vehicle in the family, a 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 that finally failed at over a million miles (odometer rolled over, then failed) (gas not diesel.). Yea it needed an overhaul at 800k miles, but it fared much better than the 98 ram 1500, that by 300k, was traded in after 4 or 5 transmission rebuilds.

The Insight is the third Honda for me, finally a decent interior. Had an 03 element that I loved, but that thing was a headache (and got stuck in any element), traded it for an 02 accord, that less than a month later needed major engine work at 170k.

I know this was long winded, but as someone who has owned a fair share of vehicles, and driven vehicles from almost every mainstream manufacturer on earth, I honestly don't believe that any one manufacturer is devoid of lemons or issues...
 

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Well I know it's purely subjective, but I've had both "Chrysler" and GM vehicles up near the the 300k mark with minimal maintenance. It's purely a crap shoot though, with any manufacturer and owner. It depends on how pervasive a problem is, and how "complaint-prone" an owner is.

I know a guy that has spent over 10 grand on his '03 Tacoma over the past 3 years, only to go replace it recently with a newer one. He was at ~220k miles. Compared to my Colorado, I had ~800$ in repairs during the same time frame (I did the labor), and I traded it in at 285k miles.

To date, highest mileage vehicle I've owned, a 98 dodge neon with 318k miles. Highest mileage vehicle in the family, a 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 that finally failed at over a million miles (odometer rolled over, then failed) (gas not diesel.). Yea it needed an overhaul at 800k miles, but it fared much better than the 98 ram 1500, that by 300k, was traded in after 4 or 5 transmission rebuilds.

The Insight is the third Honda for me, finally a decent interior. Had an 03 element that I loved, but that thing was a headache (and got stuck in any element), traded it for an 02 accord, that less than a month later needed major engine work at 170k.

I know this was long winded, but as someone who has owned a fair share of vehicles, and driven vehicles from almost every mainstream manufacturer on earth, I honestly don't believe that any one manufacturer is devoid of lemons or issues...
Totally agree with you. I own a 2013 Fiat 500 Turbo and if you look at any reliability rating, they are always dead last and people just think they are complete junk. But in the 6 years and 50k that I’ve owned it, it only went to the dealer for ONE warranty visit. The right rear jounce bumper fell off its perch (only figured it out after I saw it laying in the spring seat) and the right rear caliper seized up in the open position. Didn’t affect its driveability and it still has its original battery. And this thing has numerous performance upgrades. One of the most fun to drive cars I’ve ever owned and plan to keep it as long as possible. That being said, my 2016 Fiat 500X that I traded in on the Insight was a more trouble prone car to own. It was reliable, but more then a few niggling problems and numerous trips to the dealer soured my experience.
 

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Totally agree with you. I own a 2013 Fiat 500 Turbo and if you look at any reliability rating, they are always dead last and people just think they are complete junk. But in the 6 years and 50k that I’ve owned it, it only went to the dealer for ONE warranty visit. The right rear jounce bumper fell off its perch (only figured it out after I saw it laying in the spring seat) and the right rear caliper seized up in the open position. Didn’t affect its driveability and it still has its original battery. And this thing has numerous performance upgrades. One of the most fun to drive cars I’ve ever owned and plan to keep it as long as possible. That being said, my 2016 Fiat 500X that I traded in on the Insight was a more trouble prone car to own. It was reliable, but more then a few niggling problems and numerous trips to the dealer soured my experience.
To be completely honest, the Insight has been to the dealership more times than any other car I've owned. Luckily I don't expect cars to be perfect, and it wasn't something that majorly affected the way it drove. I still absolutely love the car and think that it will be a long term reliable car.
 

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To be completely honest, the Insight has been to the dealership more times than any other car I've owned. Luckily I don't expect cars to be perfect, and it wasn't something that majorly affected the way it drove. I still absolutely love the car and think that it will be a long term reliable car.
Again, it's all about the day of the week. Mine was built on a Tuesday and has only been to the dealer once - for the camera recall. After 24K miles, I've done two oil changes and four tire rotations myself. Other than the self-inflicted electrical issue I had last week, it's been pretty-much perfect.
 

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Again, it's all about the day of the week. Mine was built on a Tuesday and has only been to the dealer once - for the camera recall. After 24K miles, I've done two oil changes and four tire rotations myself. Other than the self-inflicted electrical issue I had last week, it's been pretty-much perfect.
No argument here, and I have no complaints about the car or it's reliability. Just playing devil's advocate for a second.
 
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