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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've read a couple of posts on this forum about using the Lane Keeping Assistant System (LKAS) in conjunction with Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) and fooling the steering wheel into thinking my hands are on it by propping a plastic bottle into its bottom area to create a kind of autonomous driving experience. (Can't find those posts now.) Well, I did just that the other day on a stretch of I-70 in Missouri for about 100 miles. I'd like to share my experience.

First of all, it was successful and it exceeded my expectations. Most of the way (a total of about 100 miles and fairly straight) there was very little traffic (except the last 15 or so miles), and I knew that would be the case which is why I experimented on this highway. I kept my ACC speed at 65 mph (70 mph posted speed). I stayed in the right lane the entire time. My hands were always ready to take over if necessary. There were 6-7 times that I had to intervene by taking over the steering wheel, but only a little. Four of these interventions involved off-ramps and I was expecting this. When approaching the off-ramp, the car followed the white line on the right side that veered off the interstate. Each time I had to make a small adjustment to stay the course. However, for most of the off-ramps, the car stayed its course. Twice the shoulder line became blurred to the camera of the car, both times around corners, and the car veered off of onto the shoulder. I made the small steering adjustment to get back on track. Never did the car veer to its left into the left-hand lane. And the ACC kept a safe distance to cars in front as expected. By the way, I was the only one in the car.

Sitting in the driver's seat knowing that the car was driving itself down the road felt surreal, bizarre, and strange. And in some ways, it felt futuristic. On straight stretches with very little traffic, I felt like I could safely look around and enjoy the surroundings more than usual and I did just that. However, I was well aware of the importance of staying alert which I also did. I wondered at times if I was the first human being to drive "autonomously" on that stretch of road. I thought maybe I was making history. :) Who knows?

By the way,*I did a Google search on "is autonomous driving legal" and found this below.

There are no laws in Missouri that pertain to self-driving vehicles, so self-driving cars are not explicitly prohibited in the state


Here's the link. - https://www.lifewire.com/are-self-driving-cars-legal-4587765
 

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I would secretly do this too if there wasn't much cars on the highway. :D
 

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I routinely do this on my morning commute. I use the little baggie full of extra lugnuts from my wheel locks...and like $2 worth of quarters in the baggie. Works perfect. The system isn't perfect and you do need to pay attention Luke if you have acc on and someone merges into you the car will be late in picking up the merging car...

I love It! Takes so much stress out of driving for long periods of time...I chalk it up to Autopilot 0.7...lol

You have to understand that it was never designed to replace driving...only assist in it. I do try to push the boundaries though...while being extremely safe for myself and those around me.
 

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I won't lie, on road trips I've used LKAS/ACC to give myself the freedom to grab a water bottle to drink, or look down to plug my phone or other device into a USB port.

I haven't tried the "tricking" the system thing, but I will attest that I too find myself more able to "look around" while driving, even if it's just at a skyline or reading a billboard. Something I'd never have been able to feel comfortable doing in any other vehicle.

This brings up a question I forgot to ask, does anyone know how the driver attention thing works in our cars? Almost through New Jersey the car kept popping up "driver attention" warnings. I don't know if Cornelius just wanted me to pull over at a rest stop and stretch my legs...

The thing I found odd was that at first I thought maybe it's a timer based thing, but it didn't happen on our way back, although we did stop at least twice more on the way back than on the way down.
 

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This brings up a question I forgot to ask, does anyone know how the driver attention thing works in our cars? Almost through New Jersey the car kept popping up "driver attention" warnings. I don't know if Cornelius just wanted me to pull over at a rest stop and stretch my legs...

The thing I found odd was that at first I thought maybe it's a timer based thing, but it didn't happen on our way back, although we did stop at least twice more on the way back than on the way down.
Honda introduced the 'Driver Attention Monitor' on in 2017 on the CR-V, and described it in most detail at manuals/documentation of that time: https://www.hondainfocenter.com/CR-V-Family/2018-CR-V/Vehicle-Details/Interior/Driver-Attention-Monitor-EX-and-above
  • Uses angle sensor to measure degree of steering wheel corrections to maintain lane position.
  • Too much correction activity can trigger the 'inattention' alert.
The alert level can be adjusted for a drive via the DII or Infotainment menu (Off / Tactile only / Tactile & Audible), but the visual alert is always on. It resumes its default "ALL ON" condition once the car is re-started OR if the driver unfastens seat belt and opens the door while car is stopped.

It does not activate when the car is traveling <25 mph, there issues with the electric power steering system, LKAS is active, the car is on choppy roads, windy weather conditions, or the driver is operating the car 'assertively' (OM p146).

I think it must also compare 'steering wheel input' patterns versus what the car thinks the right road path is (RDM? - since not active when LKAS is on?) and/or a 'normal' level of movements to the steering wheel.

Maybe there were differences between your outbound and return drive that resulted in different feedback result - like the road quality (bumpy?), lighting conditions (assuming comparison to camera lane detection), 'assertive' driving level (lane changes or acceleration), road width, or wind conditions...?

https://youtu.be/sZzeZvYNlYw?t=55
 

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Honda introduced the 'Driver Attention Monitor' on in 2017 on the CR-V, and described it in most detail at manuals/documentation of that time: https://www.hondainfocenter.com/CR-V-Family/2018-CR-V/Vehicle-Details/Interior/Driver-Attention-Monitor-EX-and-above
  • Uses angle sensor to measure degree of steering wheel corrections to maintain lane position.
  • Too much correction activity can trigger the 'inattention' alert.
The alert level can be adjusted for a drive via the DII or Infotainment menu (Off / Tactile only / Tactile & Audible), but the visual alert is always on. It resumes its default "ALL ON" condition once the car is re-started OR if the driver unfastens seat belt and opens the door while car is stopped.

It does not activate when the car is traveling <25 mph, there issues with the electric power steering system, LKAS is active, the car is on choppy roads, windy weather conditions, or the driver is operating the car 'assertively' (OM p146).

I think it must also compare 'steering wheel input' patterns versus what the car thinks the right road path is (RDM? - since not active when LKAS is on?) and/or a 'normal' level of movements to the steering wheel.

Maybe there were differences between your outbound and return drive that resulted in different feedback result - like the road quality (bumpy?), lighting conditions (assuming comparison to camera lane detection), 'assertive' driving level (lane changes or acceleration), road width, or wind conditions...?

https://youtu.be/sZzeZvYNlYw?t=55
Definitely more LKAS driving the way down there, and much more @ highway speed.
On the way back got caught in several major traffic jams, and probably averaged less than 45mph total trip.
 

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Definitely more LKAS driving the way down there, and much more @ highway speed.
On the way back got caught in several major traffic jams, and probably averaged less than 45mph total trip.
Sounds like speed was a big difference. The original CR-V design/documentation for this also mentioned that the monitor only kicked in for drives that were >30 minutes in duration, but I think Honda has 'improved' this to kick in with shorter start time since 2017.
 

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It would be interesting to get a sense of people that have driven a Tesla with full navigate on autopilot... I have a couple of times and its literally mind blowing. I wish the lkas was more aggressive as in construction areas or lane shifts or moderate curves the lkas just doesn't have the required amount of adjustment to maintain in the lane and disengaged. I read that someone said putting the RDMS to narrow would increase the amount of torque for LKAS but I find it to be the opposite...once RDMS activates the steering wheel just wobbles and LKAS isn't active anymore so I might try to switch that to wide and try again...
 

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It would be interesting to get a sense of people that have driven a Tesla with full navigate on autopilot... I have a couple of times and its literally mind blowing. I wish the lkas was more aggressive as in construction areas or lane shifts or moderate curves the lkas just doesn't have the required amount of adjustment to maintain in the lane and disengaged. I read that someone said putting the RDMS to narrow would increase the amount of torque for LKAS but I find it to be the opposite...once RDMS activates the steering wheel just wobbles and LKAS isn't active anymore so I might try to switch that to wide and try again...
It's cause Honda limits the steering wheel torque. This prevents the car from doing more aggressive turns using LKAS but it also allows you take control of the car easier if a false positive shows up. For example, if the car reads the lane markers wrong and is turning into the wrong lane you will be able to easily correct the steering wheel due to limited steering torque. Where as if the torque was stronger you will not be able to correct the steering wheel as quickly preventing an accident. LKAS reinforces the steering wheel with power steering so just imagine trying to fight it when it suddenly thinks it need to do an aggressive wide turn.
 

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It's cause Honda limits the steering wheel torque. This prevents the car from doing more aggressive turns using LKAS but it also allows you take control of the car easier if a false positive shows up. For example, if the car reads the lane markers wrong and is turning into the wrong lane you will be able to easily correct the steering wheel due to limited steering torque. Where as if the torque was stronger you will not be able to correct the steering wheel as quickly preventing an accident. LKAS reinforces the steering wheel with power steering so just imagine trying to fight it when it suddenly thinks it need to do an aggressive wide turn.
Between the Civic, Accord and Insight - the Insight has the lowest steering wheel torque (highest steering ratio) but requires more turn/rotation of the steering wheel. - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/4654-post20.html

2019 Civic EX CVT -- steering ratio = 10.94 : 1 -- lock-to-lock turns = 2.22
2019 Accord EX CVT -- steering ratio = 11.77 : 1 -- lock-to-lock turns = 2.30
2019 Insight EX CVT -- steering ratio = 12.58 : 1 -- lock-to-lock turns = 2.54
 

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It's cause Honda limits the steering wheel torque. This prevents the car from doing more aggressive turns using LKAS but it also allows you take control of the car easier if a false positive shows up. For example, if the car reads the lane markers wrong and is turning into the wrong lane you will be able to easily correct the steering wheel due to limited steering torque. Where as if the torque was stronger you will not be able to correct the steering wheel as quickly preventing an accident. LKAS reinforces the steering wheel with power steering so just imagine trying to fight it when it suddenly thinks it need to do an aggressive wide turn.
Couldn't this be easily averted by placing a sensor on the steering wheel that say temporarily disengages LKAS, RDM by either how hard you squeeze, or with a designated hand placement, like 2 hands on the wheel from 2-4, and 8-10 o'clock.
 

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Couldn't this be easily averted by placing a sensor on the steering wheel that say temporarily disengages LKAS, RDM by either how hard you squeeze, or with a designated hand placement, like 2 hands on the wheel from 2-4, and 8-10 o'clock.
The hand placement probably isn't a good idea in a panic situation for me. I can see the "squeeze" option as a good idea.
 

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The hand placement probably isn't a good idea in a panic situation for me. I can see the "squeeze" option as a good idea.
Just an idea brainstormer over here :wink:
 
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