Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone,

As the title suggests, I recently got a brand new 2019 Honda Insight and I've already put 2,700 miles on it in just over a month of ownership. Today I decided to check the oil level in order to get a baseline so that I can continually check and make sure it's not burning oil. To my surprise, the oil was filled about a half an inch (maybe even a bit more, but no more than 3/4 an inch) over the max fill mark. In fact, the oil was just passed the orange plastic and on the metal above it. To be clear, I checked twice, once cold, and once 15 minutes after driving. I wiped down the entire dipstick first, re-inserted, and checked the level. I was on an even surface. In doing a little research, I found that the engines come from the factory filled with oil, so it wasn't the dealership's fault.

My questions: Is this normal? Is anyone else's like this as well? Is this just an out-of-the-factory quirk or maybe part of the break-in process? Should I have the excess oil drained? Finally, would any damage have been done driving like this for almost 3,000 miles?

Thank you to everyone in advance for the help!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
Bring to dealer to 'officially' report the overfill and have them correct/drain... even if you could drain it yourself.

Oil (and other liquids) can be pressurized but not compressed. The oil pump uses this 'physics' to pressurize oil and spray it through small holes in the bearings where the crankshaft and camshafts ride, without direct contact to the bearings.

Overfilled oil moves toward the crankshaft, and the oil can get mixed with air as the crankshaft rotates at high speed. The 'foamy' oil is a poor lubricant because it can't be distributed as effectively as liquid, and serious damage could result.

The good news is:
- The gas engine doesn't run full time in the Insight, so you haven't put 2700 miles of direct use on the engine while overfilled with oil.
- Hondas have reported 'extra oil' in models experiencing oil dilution from turbo direct injection... but that should NOT apply to the Insight, since it's port-injected. You'd also 'smell' gas in the oil, if it were the source of extra volume in the oil reservoir.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Bring to dealer to 'officially' report the overfill and have them correct/drain... even if you could drain it yourself.

Oil (and other liquids) can be pressurized but not compressed. The oil pump uses this 'physics' to pressurize oil and spray it through small holes in the bearings where the crankshaft and camshafts ride, without direct contact to the bearings.

Overfilled oil moves toward the crankshaft, and the oil can get mixed with air as the crankshaft rotates at high speed. The 'foamy' oil is a poor lubricant because it can't be distributed as effectively as liquid, and serious damage could result.

The good news is:
- The gas engine doesn't run full time in the Insight, so you haven't put 2700 miles of direct use on the engine while overfilled with oil.
- Hondas have reported 'extra oil' in models experiencing oil dilution from turbo direct injection... but that should NOT apply to the Insight, since it's port-injected. You'd also 'smell' gas in the oil, if it were the source of extra volume in the oil reservoir.
Thank you for all the information! I'll certainly bring it in to the dealer as you suggested. It's crazy that this can happen out of the factory like this!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Update: I brought it to the dealership today. The tech looked at everything and said that it was overfilled, but he didn't believe it was by enough to cause any damage to the engine. He said that I had two options: either leave it in as is, or do a full oil change. I asked if they could simply drain the excess and they said it was too difficult to do so because the flow is too strong. I then asked if they could siphon it out through the dipstick hole, and they said "absolutely not," and went on to say that they didn't have any way to do that. So, I opted to have them do the full oil change. I wasn't sure if this was the right choice because I know the starting oil has extra additives from Honda that help to coat the engine better during the break-in period.

So, I asked them to measure the amount drained so that I had a reference point. When everything was done (2 1/2 hours total by the way between waiting WITH an appointment and having the actual work done), they forgot to actually measure it, but the tech said that he'd estimate between 4-5 quarts were drained and that I "probably had about an extra quart in there." I asked if there was any damage to the engine, and he said, "I didn't see anything that stood out." I'm not actually sure that he checked anything to be honest... But anyway, the paperwork I got does state that the engine was overfilled, which they assured me would be enough for a warranty claim should any issues arise.

So, do you think I made the right choice in having them do a full oil change, sacrificing the "special factory oil?" I'm definitely glad to have the paperwork stating that it was overfilled, though.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
Update: I brought it to the dealership today. The tech looked at everything and said that it was overfilled, but he didn't believe it was by enough to cause any damage to the engine. He said that I had two options: either leave it in as is, or do a full oil change. I asked if they could simply drain the excess and they said it was too difficult to do so because the flow is too strong. I then asked if they could siphon it out through the dipstick hole, and they said "absolutely not," and went on to say that they didn't have any way to do that. So, I opted to have them do the full oil change. I wasn't sure if this was the right choice because I know the starting oil has extra additives from Honda that help to coat the engine better during the break-in period.

So, I asked them to measure the amount drained so that I had a reference point. When everything was done (2 1/2 hours total by the way between waiting WITH an appointment and having the actual work done), they forgot to actually measure it, but the tech said that he'd estimate between 4-5 quarts were drained and that I "probably had about an extra quart in there." I asked if there was any damage to the engine, and he said, "I didn't see anything that stood out." I'm not actually sure that he checked anything to be honest... But anyway, the paperwork I got does state that the engine was overfilled, which they assured me would be enough for a warranty claim should any issues arise.

So, do you think I made the right choice in having them do a full oil change, sacrificing the "special factory oil?" I'm definitely glad to have the paperwork stating that it was overfilled, though.
I would had done the same because the factory oil will do you no good if it can't lubricate your engine properly due to the overfill. I'm pretty sure you can do without the factory oil(otherwise they would sell it as an emergency replacement at the dealership). Honda must know that certain cars sit on the dealership lot for more than a year and would have the factory oil immediately replaced anyways just like a few Insight owners here.



Based on discussions here in another thread we believe this is the factory oil Honda use that contains extra moly if you ever want to try it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QXMJBS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


Edit: You might want to contact Honda corporate to get a case number for your record. https://owners.honda.com/help/customer-relations
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would had done the same because the factory oil will do you no good if it can't lubricate your engine properly due to the overfill. I'm pretty sure you can do without the factory oil(otherwise they would sell it as an emergency replacement at the dealership). Honda must know that certain cars sit on the dealership lot for more than a year and would have the factory oil immediately replaced anyways just like a few Insight owners here.



Based on discussions here in another thread we believe this is the factory oil Honda use that contains extra moly if you ever want to try it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072QXMJBS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1


Edit: You might want to contact Honda corporate to get a case number for your record. https://owners.honda.com/help/customer-relations
Thank you for putting my mind at ease! I think I will try that oil for my next change, which I'll be doing myself.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
So, do you think I made the right choice in having them do a full oil change, sacrificing the "special factory oil?" I'm definitely glad to have the paperwork stating that it was overfilled, though.
There are plenty of resources (including Edmunds) who still recommend a first oil change at ~3000 miles, to remove/diminish the amount of metal in the oil from the break-in process... and your within that range - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/1440-post6.html

Without option to partially drain, I would have done the full replacement as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Update 2, unfortunately: Sooooo, I just got home and I finally had time to check the work done, and it turns out it is overfilled AGAIN, by about the same amount. I'm also now thinking that the dealership was the one who overfilled it to begin with because I checked the manufacture date, and it was October 2018, and I bought it at the very end of July, so it was sitting essentially for 10 months, so I'd wager they changed the oil!

They additionally put a small dent into the rear quarter-panel on the passenger side somehow! I called them up to let them know of both issues and they want me to come back again tomorrow to fix everything. They also want to look at the entrance cameras with me to make sure the damage to the rear quarter-panel wasn't there before-hand.

I don't know what to do now. I really don't trust this dealership anymore (Honda of Babylon, NY, if anyone is interested), but one of the incentives I got was a free year of service for the car, only redeemable there. So I feel like I'm stuck.

Here's some pictures of the dipstick, showing the level. Again, the dipstick was wiped down thoroughly first and then measured, it was a level surface, and it was done 30 minutes post-driving (still warm). How much over do you guys think this is? In the second picture if you look close you can see the sheen of the oil on the metal just above the orange (no flash was used in this picture).
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
Update 2, unfortunately: Sooooo, I just got home and I finally had time to check the work done, and it turns out it is overfilled AGAIN, by about the same amount. I'm also now thinking that the dealership was the one who overfilled it to begin with because I checked the manufacture date, and it was October 2018, and I bought it at the very end of July, so it was sitting essentially for 10 months, so I'd wager they changed the oil!

They additionally put a small dent into the rear quarter-panel on the passenger side somehow! I called them up to let them know of both issues and they want me to come back again tomorrow to fix everything. They also want to look at the entrance cameras with me to make sure the damage to the rear quarter-panel wasn't there before-hand.

I don't know what to do now. I really don't trust this dealership anymore (Honda of Babylon, NY, if anyone is interested), but one of the incentives I got was a free year of service for the car, only redeemable there. So I feel like I'm stuck.

Here's some pictures of the dipstick, showing the level. Again, the dipstick was wiped down thoroughly first and then measured, it was a level surface, and it was done 30 minutes post-driving (still warm). How much over do you guys think this is? In the second picture if you look close you can see the sheen of the oil on the metal just above the orange (no flash was used in this picture).






The yelp and google parts/service reviews for that dealership seems pretty bad, too. It's possible that the dealership overfilled because you're not the first Insight owner here to report it. They probably assumed it's 4 quarts similar to the Civic instead of 3.5 quarts for the Insight.








 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
Update 2, unfortunately: Sooooo, I just got home and I finally had time to check the work done, and it turns out it is overfilled AGAIN, by about the same amount. I'm also now thinking that the dealership was the one who overfilled it to begin with because I checked the manufacture date, and it was October 2018, and I bought it at the very end of July, so it was sitting essentially for 10 months, so I'd wager they changed the oil!
Wow, you're probably right that the dealer topped it off originally, especially if it's overfilled once again... and others in forum haven't had this happen twice (let alone once).

The Insight is newer, and there was prior discussion thread below that multiple dealers quoted 4 quarts as the oil volume for the Insight (rather than 3.5 qt with filter change / 3.3 qt without filter change). - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/153-2019-powertrain-technical-discussion/2678-significant-drop-mpg-after-1st-oil-change-2.html

The Accord Hybrid takes 3.7 qt oil without filter change / 4.0 qt with filter change, and perhaps the dealer is generalizing this to all other hybrids. Frankly, the specs for Clarity oil change (3.5 qt with / 3.3 qt without) are identical to the Insight's. Dealers need to think of (or be reminded (?) that) the Insight's engine size (1.5L) is more like the Clarity (1.5L) than the Accord Hybrid (2.0L).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Wow, you're probably right that the dealer topped it off originally, especially if it's overfilled once again... and others in forum haven't had this happen twice (let alone once). The Insight is newer, and there was prior discussion thread below that multiple dealers quoted 4 quarts as the oil volume for the Insight (rather than 3.5 qt with filter change / 3.3 qt without filter change). - https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/153-2019-powertrain-technical-discussion/2678-significant-drop-mpg-after-1st-oil-change-2.html

The Accord Hybrid takes 3.7 qt oil without filter change / 4.0 qt without filter change, and perhaps the dealer is generalizing this to all other hybrids. Frankly, the specs for Clarity oil change are similar to the Insight's (3.5 qt with / 3.3 qt without). Dealers need to think of (or be reminded (?) that) the Insight's engine size (1.5L) is more like the Clarity (1.5L) than the Accord Hybrid (2.0L).
I was about to ask if the Insight has a smaller oil capacity then the Civic and you just verified this. I imagine we will see this happen more often at dealers that don’t pay attention. My previous car was a Fiat 500X with a 1.4 turbo. Very few of these were sold with that engine as they only come with a manual. Most have a 2.4 that holds 1.5 quarts more. The oil change techs just see a 500x and assume it’s a 2.4 and thus overfilled my engine TWICE. The first time I didn’t realize it until I had driven 5k, thankfully with no apparent damage. After that, I made it a point to check the oil level before leaving the dealership and making the advisor notate on the work order “DO NOT OVERFILL OIL”.

After this guy’s experience, I’m paranoid and will be checking the oil level on my Insight tomorrow. It’s been about 1k since my first oil change.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
I was about to ask if the Insight has a smaller oil capacity then the Civic and you just verified this. I imagine we will see this happen more often at dealers that don’t pay attention.
The turbo-charged GenX Civics have 1.5L engines (3.7 / 3.4 qt) and the naturally aspirated GenX Civics have 2.0L engines (4.4 / 4.2 qt). As of the 2019 Civic refresh, only the LX and Sport trims are left with the 2.0L engines.

I don't think techs are checking enough before reapplying Civic/Accord specs. They don't seem to know the Insight has a 1.5L engine. If they did, they'd see Honda's oil change specs for the 1.5L turbo-Civic, 1.5L Insight, and 1.5L Clarity are about the same at ~3.5 qt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
836 Posts
Just want to point out that if you see a service form (receipt) that says 4.0 quarts, that could be just an internal inventory thing, as oil is commonly measured in bulk by quarts, it doesn't automatically mean that they have added that much oil. (This comment is a general comment, not specific to this post)

As far as this dealership goes, I would give them the chance to fix this (mainly because they should fix it, and you can further document their ignorance if they don't), but I wouldn't trust them for any major repairs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
So after reading this I decided that I would check my oil to see where it was. It also was above the top of the orange area so I would have to assume that mine is also overfilled. Car was built in January 2019 and purchased it in March 2019. I don't think the dealer would have changed the oil before delivery.My car has just over 2000 KM (1255 miles ). I wonder if we could get more people to check who haven't had there oil changed to get a better consensus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Update 3: I went back to the dealership today and to my surprise they told me they wouldn't do another oil change. I wound up speaking (arguing rather) with the tech directly who stated that it was indeed above the fill line but that, "anything a fingertip length or less over is considered to be fine." I then asked to speak to the manager who took a look and agreed that it was over. The tech then insisted that yesterday only 3.5 quarts were added, and that everything was within specifications. So the manager then had his "top tech" come out to take a look. He came out after a little while and looked and said that we were all reading the dipstick wrong. He said that because of the shape of the orange plastic bit, and that fact that it protrudes a bit from the metal, it scrapes the sidewalls on the way up when removing it, causing the oil to pool at that "notch." I then said, "yeah, but we did an imprint too on a paper towel and the entire orange piece imprinted oil on the paper towel." He then said that paper towels were too absorbent and that because the top of the orange piece had oil on it and because the sides had oil on it, when we did the imprint, capillary action immediately occurred making it look like the entire orange piece had oil on it. He then brought out a shop towel and did an imprint on that, picture below. He showed me that there was a gap in oil on his imprint. He allowed me to do it as well, and I pressed pretty hard, and indeed there was a gap when I did it as well. So he said that the level was actually right at the max fill line. I bought what he was saying and agreed that it was probably fine. So the takeaway I guess is that these dipsticks are horrible, lol.

Here's the picture:

Oh, and they did admit to the damage on the rear quarter-panel as well and are repairing it on Thursday.
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
He then brought out a shop towel and did an imprint on that, picture below. He showed me that there was a gap in oil on his imprint. He allowed me to do it as well, and I pressed pretty hard, and indeed there was a gap when I did it as well. So he said that the level was actually right at the max fill line. I bought what he was saying and agreed that it was probably fine. So the takeaway I guess is that these dipsticks are horrible, lol.
[...]
Oh, and they did admit to the damage on the rear quarter-panel as well and are repairing it on Thursday.
I miss the old metal dipstick with circles... I'm not sure I understand why a plastic end a better material to leave submerged in oil either.

How bad is the damage on the rear quarter panel? Did they find driveway video that confirmed dealer was at fault?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
How bad is the damage on the rear quarter panel? Did they find driveway video that confirmed dealer was at fault?
We reviewed the video of the car entering and confirmed that there was no damage on that panel when I entered. So he "took my word for it" that it happened during the oil change. It's not bad, it's about 3/4 of an inch in diameter dent and a scratch in the middle of that dent.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,347 Posts
So after reading this I decided that I would check my oil to see where it was. It also was above the top of the orange area so I would have to assume that mine is also overfilled. Car was built in January 2019 and purchased it in March 2019. I don't think the dealer would have changed the oil before delivery.My car has just over 2000 KM (1255 miles ). I wonder if we could get more people to check who haven't had there oil changed to get a better consensus.
Update 3: I went back to the dealership today and to my surprise they told me they wouldn't do another oil change. I wound up speaking (arguing rather) with the tech directly who stated that it was indeed above the fill line but that, "anything a fingertip length or less over is considered to be fine." I then asked to speak to the manager who took a look and agreed that it was over. The tech then insisted that yesterday only 3.5 quarts were added, and that everything was within specifications. So the manager then had his "top tech" come out to take a look. He came out after a little while and looked and said that we were all reading the dipstick wrong. He said that because of the shape of the orange plastic bit, and that fact that it protrudes a bit from the metal, it scrapes the sidewalls on the way up when removing it, causing the oil to pool at that "notch." I then said, "yeah, but we did an imprint too on a paper towel and the entire orange piece imprinted oil on the paper towel." He then said that paper towels were too absorbent and that because the top of the orange piece had oil on it and because the sides had oil on it, when we did the imprint, capillary action immediately occurred making it look like the entire orange piece had oil on it. He then brought out a shop towel and did an imprint on that, picture below. He showed me that there was a gap in oil on his imprint. He allowed me to do it as well, and I pressed pretty hard, and indeed there was a gap when I did it as well. So he said that the level was actually right at the max fill line. I bought what he was saying and agreed that it was probably fine. So the takeaway I guess is that these dipsticks are horrible, lol.

Here's the picture:

Oh, and they did admit to the damage on the rear quarter-panel as well and are repairing it on Thursday.
Mine also has the shiny oil over the top mark. Since my oil is almost a year old you can see the darker oil is a little under the max mark. So what the top tech mentioned about scraping the sidewall does seem reasonable. I still need to double check again tomorrow since it was kind of hard to see in the dark relying on street lights.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
It's really hard to see the oil on my new Insight's dipstick since it's still real clean. It definitely is not on the metal above the orange plastic section. It does seem to be at about the top of the orange section which would only be about 1/4" high. I'm thinking that's not enough to be a concern. Am I right?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,328 Posts
It's really hard to see the oil on my new Insight's dipstick since it's still real clean. It definitely is not on the metal above the orange plastic section. It does seem to be at about the top of the orange section which would only be about 1/4" high. I'm thinking that's not enough to be a concern. Am I right?
It sounds like you're okay, and there are a couple posts from others that mention similar:
- @Roquen22 mentions learning that the shape and protrusion of the orange plastic scrapes the sidewalls on the way up when removing it, causing the oil to pool toward top
- @andrew28 also mentions seeing 'shine' above the top mark

I'm still not sure why this orange plastic dipstick is a standard for Honda, though. The old metal ones were much easier to read and worked just fine.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top