Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,343 Posts
Discussion Starter #1

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
I feel like gas hybrids are on the way out, honestly. It seems like many of the major manufacturers (BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Ford, Volvo, Pontiac) are putting their bets on PHEVs. I probably would have gotten one if I had a garage and wasn't parking my car outside every day. So I don't know how big an impact this move has.

I also don't really know what Toyota is expecting... is it like open source? They put their best ideas out there and hope that others find ways to improve upon them?

California is just full of hybrid Toyota/Lexus vehicles, with Ford hybrids close behind. I see plenty of Teslas too.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
PHEVs are an odd lot. If you don't have a garage, you're not likely to own one unless you can run a cord to the street. If you park a block or two from your house, there's no way you can own one.

Until charging is as accessible as gasoline and can charge in a comparable amount of time, ICE (incl. hybrids) cars will remain in the mainstream.

I owned an '81 Mercedes diesel. I ran an extension cord out my second story window in order to plug in the block heater in winter. The **** neighborhood kids kept unplugging it from the car at night.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,343 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I feel like gas hybrids are on the way out, honestly. It seems like many of the major manufacturers (BMW, Audi, Volkswagen, Ford, Volvo, Pontiac) are putting their bets on PHEVs. I probably would have gotten one if I had a garage and wasn't parking my car outside every day. So I don't know how big an impact this move has.

I also don't really know what Toyota is expecting... is it like open source? They put their best ideas out there and hope that others find ways to improve upon them?

California is just full of hybrid Toyota/Lexus vehicles, with Ford hybrids close behind. I see plenty of Teslas too.
No garage, and car parked outside, too. If my apartment complex had a charger at every parking spot, I would had purchased a plug in hybrid, or went full EV. I even considered getting a plug in hybrid just to drive it like a regular hybrid without plugging it in due to the state & federal incentives. After doing some research it didn't seem like a good idea because the gas generator would be noisy and struggle to charge the bigger battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
For the type of driving we do, mostly around town, an Insight hybrid with a battery that would let us drive, say, 5-10 miles on EV would work fantastically.

As it is, with gentle driving, we've managed to be on EV for lots of short trips and seen 66, 72, and 104 mpg trip figures!

We looked at the Clarity, but it was too big for our garage! Plus, figuring out the plug in biz, and trying to wire an old house, was too much too trouble. Couldn't handle the odd side mirror, either! Gave me vertigo! :)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,326 Posts
Patents expire after 20 years, at which point the information written into the patent for protection becomes public knowledge. Assuming Toyota filed patents before/around the first Prius dating back to 1997, their original patents are just past the 20 year point. It sounds like they'll be granting 24k licenses without charging a royalty which is unique... but it also sounds like a bit of a public relations spin on "giving away" their patent information that is now available to anyone who searches for it... (?)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
2,343 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Patents expire after 20 years, at which point the information written into the patent for protection becomes public knowledge. Assuming Toyota filed patents before/around the first Prius dating back to 1997, their original patents are just past the 20 year point. It sounds like they'll be granting 24k licenses without charging a royalty which is unique... but it also sounds like a bit of a public relations spin on "giving away" their patent information that is now available to anyone who searches for it... (?)
  • Japan’s Toyota Motor Corp will offer free access to its hybrid-vehicle patents through 2030
  • Terashi said that the access excluded patents on its lithium-ion battery technology.
  • Toyota vehicles account for more than 80 percent of the global hybrid vehicle market.
  • Toyota on its own can’t get key technology accepted, but if other companies use it, that offers the best chance of expansion
  • Hybrid vehicles account for around 3 percent of all vehicles sold globally, eclipsing the roughly 1.5 percent share of all-battery EVs
  • Toyota is also betting on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) as the ultimate zero-emissions vehicle, and as a result, has lagged many of its rivals in marketing all-battery EVs.
Based on the above points listed in the article. It sounds to me like Toyota is willing to help flood the market with hybrids to slow down adoption of full EV cars(royalty-free patents exclude lithium ion battery tech). They have 80% market share of the hybrid market and giving away these patents until 2030 probably wouldn't threaten them much. I think the end goal is trying to make hydrogen fuel cell vehicles viable for them and this will buy them time to prevent full EV adoption. This sort of explains why Toyota doesn't have a full EV for sale while Honda has at least the Clarity EV. I'm not sure why Toyota is betting on hydrogen instead of full EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Patents expire after 20 years, at which point the information written into the patent for protection becomes public knowledge. Assuming Toyota filed patents before/around the first Prius dating back to 1997, their original patents are just past the 20 year point. It sounds like they'll be granting 24k licenses without charging a royalty which is unique... but it also sounds like a bit of a public relations spin on "giving away" their patent information that is now available to anyone who searches for it... (?)
Technically, the patent becomes public knowledge even before the patent is issued--shortly after it is filed with USPTO. This itself is supposed to be the company's/inventor's way of contributing to society in exchange for some period of market exclusivity. What has happened over the past few decades (and particularly in the prior US administration that used the "patent troll" narrative as an excuse to allow tech goliaths to rewrite patent law), is that the US patent system has been largely dismantled as intended by the founding fathers and is now basically a playground for big business.


Like Tesla's 2014 pledge that Musk recently brought back into the headlines (https://insideevs.com/elon-musk-open-patents-tesla-mission/), Toyota is just trying to leverage its inability to monetize lots of its patents for a bit of good press. So yes, @insightfully is exactly right that Toyota's move is pure PR. They are not losing anything, and if the "America Invents Act" (horrible legislation spearheaded by Google IP attorney Michelle Lee that the prior administration installed as head of USPTO) is ever overturned to restore more value to patents, you can bet that Toyota will find a way to enforce any relevant patents to its advantage. As would Tesla. Sadly, if these companies can't figure out how to monetize their patents, there is little hope for small startups and individual inventors who are ultimately responsible for the type of innovation that has changed the world and elevated humanity.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top