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I know that on the power side you want to stay within the blue segment for fuel efficiency purposes. The owner's manual does indicate that aggressive deceleration is bad for fuel efficiency and you can visually see it with the ECO Drive app/gauge. I assume if you do get to the bottom(or close to?) of the charge segment it means the friction brake(or some?) is being used instead of regenerative braking hence it's perceived as bad for fuel efficiency.
Late to reply, but here's my take. Aggressive deceleration is bad since it involves taking kinetic energy and converting it to store in the battery or bleed of via friction brakes. Energy is always lost during this process. The ECO Drive app is a toy that shows how to combat it. It's not really necessary since the power gauge does the same thing. After a while, one gets the idea of how things work and can do it by feel.

The most economical (and unfeasible) area of the gauge for the best efficiency is the white line on the power band. There's no loss of kinetic conversion and no use of battery at that point. Staying as close as possible to that line will give the best results.

You do bring up a good question - exactly WHEN do the friction brakes kick in? Honda did such a good job, that we can't even feel when this happens. I know they work at low speed (<15mph?), but when do they kick in under aggressive braking - is it related to power gauge position?
 

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Late to reply, but here's my take. Aggressive deceleration is bad since it involves taking kinetic energy and converting it to store in the battery or bleed of via friction brakes. Energy is always lost during this process. The ECO Drive app is a toy that shows how to combat it. It's not really necessary since the power gauge does the same thing. After a while, one gets the idea of how things work and can do it by feel.

The most economical (and unfeasible) area of the gauge for the best efficiency is the white line on the power band. There's no loss of kinetic conversion and no use of battery at that point. Staying as close as possible to that line will give the best results.

You do bring up a good question - exactly WHEN do the friction brakes kick in? Honda did such a good job, that we can't even feel when this happens. I know they work at low speed (<15mph?), but when do they kick in under aggressive braking - is it related to power gauge position?
I'd like to think that when the gauge is bottomed out, and you press the brake pedal harder, you are using friction brakes. Also they seem to be used any time the car is in reverse. I do my best to never bottom out the gauge 100%, to ensure that there is maximum regeneration capability when I do need to slow down.
 

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You do bring up a good question - exactly WHEN do the friction brakes kick in? Honda did such a good job, that we can't even feel when this happens. I know they work at low speed (<15mph?), but when do they kick in under aggressive braking - is it related to power gauge position?
The friction brakes kick in when the dial 'sharply' switches back up toward the power area, while in the charge area. I've watched this a few times to get a feel for when friction braking kicks in. (It's a little distracting from paying attention to road, so do at your own risk.) There isn't a specific/consistent position in the green charge section that this occurs, but it does seem to relate to speed (<10-15 mph) and happens even before the dial bottoms out at maximum charging.

Haven't tried watching the dial under aggressive braking, but I think the same technique of watching for when the dial 'sharply' switches direction would also be indication of where friction brakes kick in.
 

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The friction brakes kick in when the dial 'sharply' switches back up toward the power area, while in the charge area. I've watched this a few times to get a feel for when friction braking kicks in. (It's a little distracting from paying attention to road, so do at your own risk.) There isn't a specific/consistent position in the green charge section that this occurs, but it does seem to relate to speed (<10-15 mph) and happens even before the dial bottoms out at maximum charging.

Haven't tried watching the dial under aggressive braking, but I think the same technique of watching for when the dial 'sharply' switches direction would also be indication of where friction brakes kick in.
Are you talking about how the power band moves back towards white (net 0) as the vehicle is slowing? I've always been under the impression this had to do with motor rpm, and no longer being in peak charging rpm. Not saying that I'm correct, just an observation. Only due to the fact that it happens at roughly the same speed every time. It could however be the friction brakes, and that would also make sense in this scenario.
 

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Are you talking about how the power band moves back towards white (net 0) as the vehicle is slowing? I've always been under the impression this had to do with motor rpm, and no longer being in peak charging rpm. Not saying that I'm correct, just an observation. Only due to the fact that it happens at roughly the same speed every time. It could however be the friction brakes, and that would also make sense in this scenario.
We're describing it a bit differently, but if we're both talking the dial/pointer changing direction, then yes we're talking the same thing.

I'm pretty certain the direction change is from friction braking, because under normal stopping conditions the direction change happens right around the <10-15 mph mark that Honda describes.

In other driving conditions where the eCVT is adjusting rpms, the corresponding movement on the power/charge gauge has behaved more smoothly. Check it out further and let me know your thoughts -?
 

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We're describing it a bit differently, but if we're both talking the dial/pointer changing direction, then yes we're talking the same thing.

I'm pretty certain the direction change is from friction braking, because under normal stopping conditions the direction change happens right around the <10-15 mph mark that Honda describes.

In other driving conditions where the eCVT is adjusting rpms, the corresponding movement on the power/charge gauge has behaved more smoothly. Check it out further and let me know your thoughts -?
The only reason why I believe it to be rpm based is if you attempt to stop at those speeds (under 20mph) it's near impossible to bottom out the meter, and the amount of pedal travel is still very open. (not close to engaging abs).

Now if you are at say 45mph and apply the brakes, it's very easy to modulate how much charge, up until bottoming out the meter. I'm not saying that friction brakes don't engage at low speeds, and we all know they have to engage by 5mph. Maybe someday I'll have a factory diagnosis computer hooked up and see if there is any more concrete data to be had.
 

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The only reason why I believe it to be rpm based is if you attempt to stop at those speeds (under 20mph) it's near impossible to bottom out the meter, and the amount of pedal travel is still very open. (not close to engaging abs).

Now if you are at say 45mph and apply the brakes, it's very easy to modulate how much charge, up until bottoming out the meter. I'm not saying that friction brakes don't engage at low speeds, and we all know they have to engage by 5mph. Maybe someday I'll have a factory diagnosis computer hooked up and see if there is any more concrete data to be had.
What's interesting is 'not being able to bottom out the charge meter' is the same observation that leads me to the direction-change being friction braking. If I can't bottom out the charge meter at lower speeds, the braking energy is going elsewhere (i.e. hand off to friction braking). Funny how the same observation can support different theories. :)

At higher speeds where the charge meter bottoms out, I think it's mostly regenerative up until the battery can't accept more charge OR up until additional pressure triggers friction brakes to kick in (dial direction-change) for emergency braking at any speed.

I've observed lower speeds more than higher speeds, because it takes too much time for my eyes to be off the road. But short of a factory diagnosis computer for now, maybe someone with tools could record the DII along with the rear brake light (and OBDII?) to help flesh out what's happening at each speed/stage.
 

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What's interesting is 'not being able to bottom out the charge meter' is the same observation that leads me to the direction-change being friction braking. If I can't bottom out the charge meter at lower speeds, the braking energy is going elsewhere (i.e. hand off to friction braking). Funny how the same observation can support different theories. :)

At higher speeds where the charge meter bottoms out, I think it's mostly regenerative up until the battery can't accept more charge OR up until additional pressure triggers friction brakes to kick in (dial direction-change) for emergency braking at any speed.

I've observed lower speeds more than higher speeds, because it takes too much time for my eyes to be off the road. But short of a factory diagnosis computer for now, maybe someone with tools could record the DII along with the rear brake light (and OBDII?) to help flesh out what's happening at each speed/stage.
Valid point, you've changed my mind, it's probably a combination of motor rpm, and transition to friction braking at lower speeds.
 

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My understanding is that friction braking occurs more then some in here assume. The electro-servo brake system electronically apportions the amount of regenerative and friction braking supplied based on efficiency. Under light braking, it’s all regenerative until around 10mph. Under anything more then light braking, both friction and regenerative braking is being used at the same time and the amount of friction braking depends on how much you are pressing down on the pedal. To feel the engagement of regular brakes with light brake pressure, do this: get off a highway exit, set the paddles to maximum regeneration, and then lightly engage the brake pedal. You will feel additional friction braking beyond the maximum regeneration braking supplied by the motor and the charge gauge will bottom out. The regenerative brakes are not strong enough to slow the car rapidly enough under most braking circumstances which is why both systems are used in concert. The Insight has just managed to smooth out the transition point where friction starts being used that it’s not noticeable.
 

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I would also surmise that friction braking is being used anytime the charge meter is below the halfway hash mark as max regeneration via the paddles never moves the charge meter below that mark.
 

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My understanding is that friction braking occurs more then some in here assume. The electro-servo brake system electronically apportions the amount of regenerative and friction braking supplied based on efficiency. Under light braking, it’s all regenerative until around 10mph. Under anything more then light braking, both friction and regenerative braking is being used at the same time and the amount of friction braking depends on how much you are pressing down on the pedal. To feel the engagement of regular brakes with light brake pressure, do this: get off a highway exit, set the paddles to maximum regeneration, and then lightly engage the brake pedal. You will feel additional friction braking beyond the maximum regeneration braking supplied by the motor and the charge gauge will bottom out. The regenerative brakes are not strong enough to slow the car rapidly enough under most braking circumstances which is why both systems are used in concert. The Insight has just managed to smooth out the transition point where friction starts being used that it’s not noticeable.

I would also surmise that friction braking is being used anytime the charge meter is below the halfway hash mark as max regeneration via the paddles never moves the charge meter below that mark.
Agree that friction braking comes into play with heavier/emergency type braking. But initial travel of the brake pedal (in light, non-emergency braking conditions) is regenerative, even before friction brakes kick in.

If you try the opposite sequence of lightly applying the brake pedal, then adding regen via paddles, the dial goes progressively deeper into the green/charge area without bottoming out. ("brake + paddle" regen > "brake" regen > "paddle" regen) I also think friction braking is independent of dial position on the charge meter, since the "bottoming out" on the charge meter happens at different points below the halfway mark. I mostly use just the brake pedal for regen, and the above sequence of incremental charging (without bottoming out) is what I typically observe.

This prior thread/video convinced me that "dragging the brakes" is an effective "one pedal" technique for maximizing regen/mpg, without undue wear on the actual brake pads. The brake lights illuminate, but aren't immediately in friction braking mode. The driver in the video achieves 68 mpg on his 'standard test route' by only using the brake pedal for regen.
 

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Agree that friction braking comes into play with heavier/emergency type braking. But initial travel of the brake pedal (in light, non-emergency braking conditions) is regenerative, even before friction brakes kick in.

If you try the opposite sequence of lightly applying the brake pedal, then adding regen via paddles, the dial goes progressively deeper into the green/charge area without bottoming out. ("brake + paddle" regen > "brake" regen > "paddle" regen) I also think friction braking is independent of dial position on the charge meter, since the "bottoming out" on the charge meter happens at different points below the halfway mark. I mostly use just the brake pedal for regen, and the above sequence of incremental charging (without bottoming out) is what I typically observe.

This prior thread/video convinced me that "dragging the brakes" is an effective "one pedal" technique for maximizing regen/mpg, without undue wear on the actual brake pads. The brake lights illuminate, but aren't immediately in friction braking mode. The driver in the video achieves 68 mpg on his 'standard test route' by only using the brake pedal for regen.
What I’m saying is that friction brakes are used more then just for “emergency” braking. It’s used during even moderate/normal braking, just at a lesser amount then a normal system because the electric motor provides partial braking. The initial brake application is all regeneration for the first inch or so. After that, it’s both. Regeneration is generated by the electric motor’s rpms, meaning more regen is possible at higher speeds then at lower speeds because the electric motor is spinning faster. Analogy would be to downshift to second gear instead of 3rd gear in a regular gas engine and the amount of deceleration is greater because of the higher engine speed. This is why max paddle produces regen at the half hash mark at faster speeds but decreases as the car slows.
 
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