Gen 3 Insight Forum banner

Why does one have to press the Power button to start/stop the car?

8K views 24 replies 5 participants last post by  IronQQQ 
#1 ·
I parked my car at our rec center last night. Several hours later I was told my car lights were on. I did not lock the car. I went outside and discovered I had left the engine running, I put it in park and failed to push the start button. I now realize you have to push the start button to shut off. I guess there is no safety system to shut off engine when door is opened or remote is moved away from car. I now know I need to pay more attention to this key-less system. Won't help my gas mileage this month. I wonder if I am only one on these forums who has done this. If you know of a way that automatically shuts off engine when you exit car, please let me know. Thanks. Bogey
 
#2 ·
Interesting. The car should have let out several beeps outside the car when you shut the door and left it on, assuming the key was with you and not still in the car. What trim level is the car? My Ford has an auto shut off system if you leave it on and go nowhere for a long while.
 
#3 ·
To clarify, was the key left in car? It seems so, since the car continued to run...?

There are warning alerts that sound inside and outside of the car if the key goes outside of the car and all doors are closed. The car won't turn off, but there should be audible sounds to trigger you to look into what's wrong.

There was discussion in this thread of what would happen if the car wasn't powered off; however the alerts mentioned in the thread work only if the key is removed from the car's operating range (i.e. inside the car)

https://www.gen3insight.com/forum/1...stop-start-button-before-getting-out-car.html
 
#4 ·
There was discussion in this thread of what would happen if the car wasn't powered off; however the alerts mentioned in the thread work only if the key is removed from the car's operating range (i.e. inside the car)
When I leave the car running and walk away I immediately hear 3 loud and quick beeps. It's distinct and alarming.
If you leave the keys in the car, I don't think you'll hear anything. You might not have a car waiting for you though :surprise:

The default setting is for the car to automatically lock when you leave the car. It beeps once when you close the door and beeps a second time when you walk further away - the doors only lock on the second beep. If you are using this default setting, you will quickly tune in to these sounds and know that the car is not locked as expected. I sometimes travel with two sets of keys and the absence of beeps tells me that I left one set inside the car.

BTW, try leaving your second set of keys inside the trunk.
 
#8 ·
...or perhaps the walk away locks were set by dealer during delivery? Walk away lock set-up was on my dealer's checklist but I declined at the time, so my car was left at the default. The dealer also had things like phone pairing, refueling, and door unlock settings as part of the delivery set-up checklist we went thru.
 
#10 ·
Thank You BlueBoy. One more problem solved in my life and it works! Too bad the difficulty I have getting in and out can't so easily solved. Yes, I drove the car before I bought it and knew what I was getting into comfortwise. Ain't too bad once you get in.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Is there any technical reason why the Power On/Off/Start/Ignition/Watever button has to pressed to turn off the car? If the driver seat sensor registers no person in the seat and driver seat belt is sensed as disconnected, and if the key fob RFID that authenticated the car has the Lock button pushed, why can't the engine shut down and parking brake automatically engage?

let me provide a real world example. I park the car, get out of the car with key fob in my pocket, and car beeps at me because I didn't shut it off. Then my wife yells at me for not shutting off the car. This happens to me a lot. Obviously the car is smart enough to know the drivers seat belt is unbuckled, the drivers seat is vacated from weight sensor, and the key fob RFID that authenticated the car has exited the car and is still within RFID range. While the car is in within sight / RFID range, why can't I hit the Lock button and have everything shut off and engage parking brake without me needing to get back into the car to hit the Power button?

The Power On/Off/Start/watever button isn't a throw switch that closes some circuit energizes some relay which throws a switch that powers on a whole bunch of other stuff like fuel pump, ignition system and ECU. The Watever/Power On/Off is merely just a confirmation that you are ready to power on/off the car. This is not a manual keyed switch, that rotates, throws a switch, energizes a relay that throws another switched circuit that runs the fuel pump and ignition system. there simply isn't that type of mechanical circuit in the the Insight and many push to start cars these days. Perhaps one can argue that unintentional startup is not wanted due the car releasing carbon monoxide into an enclosed space, but shutting if off? What is the harm in that provided driver seat is vacated, seatbelt unbuckled, key fob RFID is outside of the car but still within range?

I know what you're thinking... IronQQQ is an idiot. Just remember to shut off the car next time... but many of the things we do with traditional ICE cars are perhaps pointless relics from the days where everything in a car is manual and mechanical. Perhaps there is a lot I don't understand my comments are just gross generalizations of the way I think car systems function.
 
#17 ·
Is there any technical reason why the Power On/Off/Start/Ignition/Watever button has to pressed to turn off the car? If the driver seat sensor registers no person in the seat and driver seat belt is sensed as disconnected, and if the key fob RFID that authenticated the car has the Lock button pushed, why can't the engine shut down and parking brake automatically engage?
[...]
I know what you're thinking... IronQQQ is an idiot. Just remember to shut off the car next time... but many of the things we do with traditional ICE cars are perhaps pointless relics from the days where everything in a car is manual and mechanical. Perhaps there is a lot I don't understand my comments are just gross generalizations of the way I think car systems function.
I don't think there's a technical reason... but I think it depends on relative/starting perspective. :)

My prior Honda (still runs!) is 20+ years old with keyed ignition. Moving to the push button start was a mentally digestible transition because the functions were similar to the keyed ignition.

I think Honda technology will get more advanced, but they're stepping through it sequentially to help users transition. In contrast, you've seen what's advanced/possible/future on a Tesla, and see Honda moving too slowly.

As a middle ground (?) the Insight can be programmed to a "one-button shutdown" (though it still requires pushing the power button, which is your frustration point) - How do you stop your Insight?

(And perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think the seat weight sensors are on passenger side only...?)
 
#16 ·
I see your point, but what if you left your wife in the car with the AC and radio on? All that would stop. The car is smart enough to throw itself in park if you vacate, I'm sure there are other reasons for not auto-powering off (and some probably legal). It would probably make working on the car more difficult as one would need the car running for certain tasks.
 
#20 ·
I think auto-stopping anything would be bad. What is a sensor went bad while driving and the car shut down?

It's bad enough it goes into park if I open the driver's door with the seatbelt unbuckled. Just to get the car on ramps for an oil change, I need to lean out the door. I must buckle the belt behind me in order to be able to see clearly. A nuisance, but one I can live with. If the car shut down automatically if the belt is unbluckled and no pressure on the seat sensor (there isn't one on the driver's side), I'd never get it on the ramps!

Automatically shutting off the car may be a legal thing as well.
 
#21 ·
There would be conditions for autoshut down.

1. Driver Seat belt unbuckled
2. Passenger seat belt unbuckled
3. Driver seat sensor vacant state
4. Passenger seat sensor vacant state
5. Car in Park
6. Driver door closed
7. RFID that authenticated car within range
8. RFID of that authenticated the start Lock button is pressed

all of these are AND statements, meaning all of these conditions have to be TRUE. that is already 2^8 just based on conditions. I'm not familiar with automotive design but in other types of design i have worked on one would designate a minimum reliability for a particular hazard.. i.e. "Inadvertent car shutoff when during drive when key fob lock is pressed" and class that failure is "major" requiring a failure rate of no less than 10^-5. Meaning, it can only failt once every 100,000 times. You create a fault tree based on software and hardware logic and physical component reliability. If you find a particularly vulnerability int he tree, which gives you a low reliability calculation, you could make a sensor redundant.. i.e. dual driver seat sensors or perhaps a dual element sensor to bump up the resultant reliability number.

In the event you do have a "disagree" between the two seat sensor states (one sensor is occupied and the other is not occupied), the computer could disable the auto shutdown feature entirely.

there are ways to mitigate things, it's just a matter of how much time and money the manufacture wants to spend and whether or not they want to pass it onto the consumer.

just a few days ago, I was driving an RX350 and walked away from the car without shutting off the engine and the car vehemently beeps at me!
 
#23 ·
Skip to 11:30 and this has some of the auto shut on, auto park, auto on/off features that I keep on harping about that Honda could have instituted on the Insight via software, but did not.



Bjorn gives credit to Honda as Tesla, Porsche and now Honda are the only ones to have these auto on/off features.
 
#24 ·
I doubt I'd use the auto-on since I get in my car to sit during kids' athletic practices. During those times, the most I would use is accessory. Auto-off, on the other hand, I'd definitely use. I'd also kill to have those back-up/bird's-eye-view cameras in the Insight!
 
#25 ·
A long time ago I wrote about why I thought about why it is needless to have a start button to place the car into drive since most cars have electrons engine and gear select controls. I thought the entire action could be authenticated by the RFID key. The door unlock is already keyless and authenticated by the RFID key. It would just take a further authentication coupled with seat belt status and seat sensor status to the car into drive without needing to press the start button. All this is predicates that the Insight is a electric motor driven car. The electric motor is the prime mover.

Bjorn illustrates that in the ID3, where he unlocks, gets in the car seat and just drives off. There is a start stop button too but it's hidden since it's redundant and not needed. Onthe insight The ICE could stay dormant until you drive off or until you press the engine button. He also mentions this in the Honda e


I made a YT link to 15:23 but in case the forum truncates it, skip to there.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top