[yqrinsightguy]

My SO has a Kia K5 2021 Sport and the lane keep is actually really really good on it. It takes a bit getting used to, I think the on/off visualization is better on Honda but it will keep the lane down to like 25mph and it takes curves WAY better and has way more torque in its ability to steer and keep around corners. I've only used it once but based on the initial use..its far exceeding my insight's lane keep....

Kia/Hyundai notoriously have the best lane keep on the market. If I wouldn't haven gotten the Insight I would have waited for the Sonata Hybrid for sure.

 

[Twylasdad]

I have driven probably more Toyota's with safety sense than anyone on this forum, but I do not own one. With that said, the one difference that stands out to me is Toyota has excellent speed based steering feel and has nice hefty steering weight at highway speeds, while the steering is light turning quickly in parking lots, possibly even lighter than the Insight. This is on their TNGA platform cars. Driver preferences vary when it comes to the driver assist systems so saying one is flat out better can be tough.

A few weeks ago I had an awful incident driving a newly arrived Venza which I believe had the latest safety sense (2+ or 2.5?). As I was following a car at about 25 mph, the car ahead turned on a left-turn signal, moved into the left lane and stopped to wait for a turn arrow. Perfectly normal. That left my lane (clearly marked) completely clear for at least a block ahead. My car suddenly slammed on the brakes, pulling me harshly forward against the seat belt and causing the car behind me very nearly to rear-end me. I could hear his tires skidding on the dry road. I braced for a collision and stepped hard on the gas pedal. He didn’t quite hit me. I hope he didn’t have a dog in his backseat! Obviously my car didn’t “realize” that the car in front had moved out of my lane. This incident left me thinking that I would drive a Venza in traffic in future only with the acc and autonomous emergency braking turned off. Is the Honda system prone to do the same thing? So what is the advantage of automatic systems like that if they cause, rather than avoid, accidents?

 

[insightfully]

Obviously my car didn’t “realize” that the car in front had moved out of my lane. This incident left me thinking that I would drive a Venza in traffic in future only with the acc and autonomous emergency braking turned off. Is the Honda system prone to do the same thing? So what is the advantage of automatic systems like that if they cause, rather than avoid, accidents?

On Honda Sensing, the Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS) can be turned off for a single drive, but automatically turns back on at the start of the next drive. Some (positive and negative) examples of Honda Sensing CMBS activation are shared in the following thread - My Insight braked by itself!!

 

[Moviemike]

A few weeks ago I had an awful incident driving a newly arrived Venza which I believe had the latest safety sense (2+ or 2.5?). As I was following a car at about 25 mph, the car ahead turned on a left-turn signal, moved into the left lane and stopped to wait for a turn arrow. Perfectly normal. That left my lane (clearly marked) completely clear for at least a block ahead. My car suddenly slammed on the brakes, pulling me harshly forward against the seat belt and causing the car behind me very nearly to rear-end me. I could hear his tires skidding on the dry road. I braced for a collision and stepped hard on the gas pedal. He didn’t quite hit me. I hope he didn’t have a dog in his backseat! Obviously my car didn’t “realize” that the car in front had moved out of my lane. This incident left me thinking that I would drive a Venza in traffic in future only with the acc and autonomous emergency braking turned off. Is the Honda system prone to do the same thing? So what is the advantage of automatic systems like that if they cause, rather than avoid, accidents?

Thanks for the story above. Makes me glad I turned that stuff off when I bought my Insight almost two years ago now.

 

[insightfully]

Thanks for the story above. Makes me glad I turned that stuff off when I bought my Insight almost two years ago now.

Some Honda Sensing features like RDM and ACC stay off when turned off, but CMBS in particular turns back on at the start of each power cycle.

 

[Moviemike]

Yeah and it gives me a warning every time the car in front of me is going up hill while I'm going down hill.

 

[Twylasdad]

Yeah and it gives me a warning every time the car in front of me is going up hill while I'm going down hill.

Seems to me my startup checklist would be
1) start car
2) Turn off CMBS
Seems like a pain.

 

[insightfully]

Seems to me my startup checklist would be
1) start car
2) Turn off CMBS
Seems like a pain.

You're right. Toyota lets the driver turn off (and keep off) the Pre-Collision System, while Honda only allows Collision Mitigation Braking System to be turned off per drive.

There is a "short" distance/sensitivity setting that can reduce some of the Honda CMBS activation (i.e. only activate when collision is within shortest distance), though still not perfect/consistent. Even tar snakes on the pavement have triggered emergency braking for me.

Also not 100% instinctive when CMBS activates itself, but CMBS cancels itself if the accelerator pedal is "deeply depressed" (OM19 pp 485-486).

 

[insightfully]

A few weeks ago I had an awful incident driving a newly arrived Venza which I believe had the latest safety sense (2+ or 2.5?).

Just did a quick check and it looks like the 2021 Toyota Venza uses TSS 2.0 as of now. The 2021 Venza launched in September 2020, but the newer TSS 2.5+ debuted in October 2020 only on the 2021 Camry and the 2021 Highlander. The 2022 Toyota Venza is expected in summer of 2021, and should see the upgrade to TSS 2.5 then.

 

[Twylasdad]

Just did a quick check and it looks like the 2021 Toyota Venza uses TSS 2.0 as of now. The 2021 Venza launched in September 2020, but the newer TSS 2.5+ debuted in October 2020 only on the 2021 Camry and the 2021 Highlander. The 2022 Toyota Venza is expected in summer of 2021, and should see the upgrade to TSS 2.5 then.

Thanks for the info and the research, Insightfully. You are amazing. Actually I’m not enthusiastic about the Venza. It’s a big, heavy, overpriced Lexus wannabe. It’s too big on the outside and too small on the inside. 40 mpg is a reach for it. Reviewers go into ecstasies about some stripes on the key fob! That’s not me at all. I actually like the looks and the vibe of the Insight much better. I just mentioned the Venza originally because I happened to be driving one when it slammed on the brakes with a clear road ahead. That was my first experience with modern safety tech, which was my main reason for thinking about a new car in the first place. Tech or no, my current ride is looking better to me lately. But I haven’t given up on the Insight. It’s really the only new car I would consider today. So I’ll keep reading this great forum.

 

[insightfully]

That was my first experience with modern safety tech, which was my main reason for thinking about a new car in the first place. Tech or no, my current ride is looking better to me lately. But I haven’t given up on the Insight. It’s really the only new car I would consider today. So I’ll keep reading this great forum.

LOL, I can relate on this one. My Gen3 Insight parks in the garage next to my Gen6 (late-90s) Civic. Driving my older Civic is super comfortable/familiar, the mechanical components are familiar/easy, the smaller size is more to my liking, and the windows/visibility are great. But I got the Insight because the reality is that my 20+ year Civic won't last forever, and that most new cars come with these safety features standard, as with Honda Sensing and Toyota Safety Sense. I also feel a need to drive on "higher alert" when in my older Civic, knowing that I need to manually compensate for not having the help from radar or camera.

It takes some getting used to the safety interventions the Insight (and our 2020 Corolla) make, and the alerts for both tend to be on the overly-sensitive side, but I do like driving my newer cars knowing that I have comparable safety features as most of the other cars on the road. I think it also keeps me more aware, so I can figure out (or even anticipate) when something like tar snakes on the road might trip an alert.

More than airbags are needed to walk away safely from accidents these days, as I've learned firsthand. It's that "one critical car accident" that will make these Sensing/TSS features worthwhile to me.